The death of George Floyd/Chauvin guilty

Originally posted by Silent Master
You're aware that it's possible to resist while being handcuffed or even afterwards, right?

Whether it was fear, mental issues, drugs, or any combination of the three, it was clear Floyd was not threatening, but also not well.

He was not aggressive or violent; he was fearful and submissive throughout the encounter. At no point did he try to break free of the officers' holds, nor did he attempt to run away or even strike the officers while being cuffed. No, instead, he pleaded with them not to hurt or kill him, was polite, respectful, and apologetic to them throughout the arrest, in spite of his claims of being in pain and having difficulty breathing...yet we hear two of the officers shout "Stop resisting!" as if he was putting up a fight--he wasn't. Again, that phrase has become a way to cast doubt on the suspect and justify their level of aggression on recordings.

Instead of taking the time to put him in a calmer state and calling an ambulance to have him checked out, the police decided they would handle it themselves forcefully per usual and tried to force him into the vehicle. You can even hear one or more of the officers state that they don't care about what Floyd is telling them nor are they listening, and you can hear the frustration in their voices as they shout their orders, as they are used to complete obedience, and anything short of complete, regardless of the reason, pisses them off.

A non-threatening man suspected of a non-violent misdemeanor totaling twenty dollars died/was killed in their custody, due to their poor judgment. That is a complete and disgraceful failure from these four wearing the title of peace officer.

Whatever excuse you wanna use he wasn't compliant.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
The lot of you seem to be under the impression that one is being resistant unless one immediately and successfully follows commands as soon as they are uttered, volunteers one's hands behind the back to be cuffed, leads the march into the back of the squad car, and thanks the police for the arrest...and that it constitutes, at the very minimum, a severe asskicking, or, at worst, being killed by police.

Whether it was fear, mental issues, drugs, or any combination of the three, it was clear Floyd was not threatening, but also not well.

He was not aggressive or violent; he was fearful and submissive throughout the encounter. At no point did he try to break free of the officers' holds, nor did he attempt to run away or even strike the officers while being cuffed. No, instead, he pleaded with them not to hurt or kill him, was polite, respectful, and apologetic to them throughout the arrest, in spite of his claims of being in pain and having difficulty breathing...yet we hear two of the officers shout "Stop resisting!" as if he was putting up a fight--he wasn't. Again, that phrase has become a way to cast doubt on the suspect and justify their level of aggression on recordings.

Instead of taking the time to put him in a calmer state and calling an ambulance to have him checked out, the police decided they would handle it themselves forcefully per usual and tried to force him into the vehicle. You can even hear one or more of the officers state that they don't care about what Floyd is telling them nor are they listening, and you can hear the frustration in their voices as they shout their orders, as they are used to complete obedience, and anything short of complete, regardless of the reason, pisses them off.

A non-threatening man suspected of a non-violent misdemeanor totaling twenty dollars died/was killed in their custody, due to their poor judgment. That is a complete and disgraceful failure from these four wearing the title of peace officer.

You're aware that it's possible to resist while being handcuffed or even afterwards, right?

Originally posted by Surtur
Floyd resists several times during the video. Otherwise he would have just been placed in cuffs and then into the cop car and that would have been that if he was fully compliant. Floyd asks to be put on the ground. Floyd claims he can't be put in the car because he is claustrophobic despite just being in a car, Floyd complains about having breathing problems multiple times before he is even on the ground.

This was not the narrative we were sold in the beginning.

No, his death wasn't justified and No he wasn't compliant the entire time.

Claustrophobia could have been an exaggeration or an undiagnosed and assumed mental disorder.

He was at ease in his own car, with the seat adjusted to his liking, and in the company of a friend.

He was clearly in emotional/mental distress, claimed difficulty breathing, was uneasy with being put in the back of a squad car immediately. Even if the spatial dimensions were the same as his own car, it is a much more stressful situation. So much so, that he asked them to roll down the windows, and asked them for a few moments to allow him to compose himself before fully entering the back of the squad car.

The police expressed indifference and then frustration to his mental/emotional distress, and rather than grant his requests, they lost their patience and resorted to force, because that's what they were taught and that is what they typically resort to.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Claustrophobia could have been an exaggeration or an undiagnosed and assumed mental disorder.

He was at ease in his own car, with the seat adjusted to his liking, and in the company of a friend.

He was clearly in emotional/mental distress, claimed difficulty breathing, was uneasy with being put in the back of a squad car immediately. Even if the spatial dimensions were the same as his own car, it is a much more stressful situation. So much so, that he asked them to roll down the windows, and asked them for a few moments to allow him to compose himself before fully entering the back of the squad car.

The police expressed indifference and then frustration to his mental/emotional distress, and rather than grant his requests, they lost their patience and resorted to force, because that's what they were taught and that is what they typically resort to.

I'm with you about 60% of what you're saying in this thread.

Reality is, he was high out of his mind and had taken a lethal dose of fentanyl WHILE also high on meth. His levels of euphoria and axiety were off the charts.

He simply didn't want to go back to prison and the arrest would have sent him back due to his prior record. That's what all that was about. His mother didn't just die, as he said to the cops: he was anxious about the arrest and also high off his balls.

I can't be surprised they didnt obey requests from what from their POV must have looked like a drug addled criminal.

This points to them needing better training, but the narrative still wasn't what we were originally told.

He deserved to live, but there was more to the story than we were told

Originally posted by Surtur
Whatever excuse you wanna use he wasn't compliant.

Only if you're using that unreasonable pass/fail standard, instead of a rational assessment of his overall compliance, behavior, threat-level, and physical/mental state.

He obeyed his instructions--without attempting escape or becoming violent-- throughout the arrest until the final command to enter the squad car (roughly 10-15 minutes later) caused him so much mental and physical distress that he requested two accommodations before completely and voluntarily entering the squad car:

1) roll down the windows a bit to help him breathe easier and relax
2) allow him a few seconds to calm down

The police didn't care if there was anything legitimately wrong with him. They just wanted to finish the arrest and move on, so they resorted to an unnecessary amount of force which either led to or contributed to his death.

That is a f*cking failure on the part of the police.

I agree cops failed, but he did fail to comply even if it wasn't via violence.

He didnt deserve to die tho

Originally posted by dadudemon
I'm with you about 60% of what you're saying in this thread.

Reality is, he was high out of his mind and had taken a lethal dose of fentanyl WHILE also high on meth. His levels of euphoria and axiety were off the charts.

He simply didn't want to go back to prison and the arrest would have sent him back due to his prior record. That's what all that was about. His mother didn't just die, as he said to the cops: he was anxious about the arrest and also high off his balls.

Fair enough, though I haven't seen anybody claim he was a saint or that he hadn't committed a crime, and neither am I, nor am I arguing that he shouldn't have been arrested.

The main issue I have is that Floyd did not at any point display threatening behavior to justify the amount of force the police used against him, and had they focused on achieving the best outcome possible instead of asserting and maintaining complete control, he may have survived the arrest to appear in court.

Does anyone know if that kneeling thing the cop did was something they were trained to do? I heard on the radio it was.

This doesn't justify it, but it just tells us even more that they need better training.

Originally posted by Surtur
Does anyone know if that kneeling thing the cop did was something they were trained to do? I heard on the radio it was.

This doesn't justify it, but it just tells us even more that they need better training.

Yeah, they were trained.

By who is harder to determine, some say Israel (ANTI-SEMITES. Not like Israel ever used underhanded tactics like kidnapped people out of Britian)

They're trained to kneel on a guy's neck for 3 minutes after he's already unresponsive?

Cop deserves to be shot.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Fair enough, though I haven't seen anybody claim he was a saint or that he hadn't committed a crime, and neither am I, nor am I arguing that he shouldn't have been arrested.

The main issue I have is that Floyd did not at any point display threatening behavior to justify the amount of force the police used against him, and had they focused on achieving the best outcome possible instead of asserting and maintaining complete control, he may have survived the arrest to appear in court.

No matter what anybody says, no matter how much gaslighting people try to do, the 3 cops on his back definitely contributed to his death.

From there, everything else is anywhere from marginally important to almost irrelevant. The most marginally important element in this whole mess is the drugs in his system (doesn't sound right but that's proper subject-verb agreement). He may have died in minutes without the police ever getting involved. He may have gotten over his high and never got high again and turned around his life and cured cancer.

Originally posted by mike brown
They're trained to kneel on a guy's neck for 3 minutes after he's already unresponsive?

Cop deserves to be shot.

I wasn't commenting on the length of time, just the maneuver itself

Originally posted by mike brown
They're trained to kneel on a guy's neck for 3 minutes after he's already unresponsive?

Cop deserves to be shot.

Go ahead, let us know how it works out for you.

Nice attempt at peer pressure but no

Originally posted by Surtur
I agree cops failed, but he did fail to comply even if it wasn't via violence.

He didnt deserve to die tho

It reminds me of the Daniel Shaver case, where once again, the suspect is both fearful and nervous, is mostly compliant with the responding officers' commands, reactively reaches to pull his pants up as he's crawling face down toward the officers as he was instructed, and is immediately shot to death. One could say he was warned not to deviate in anyway from his instructions or he would be shot to death, but he was no actual threat to either officer, and there should be room for some error without it becoming a death sentence. Police willingly signed up for a risky job but have become completely reluctant to take that risk, to the point that many of them will justify using excessive and lethal force because they thought there was A CHANCE that they may have been attacked, even if the attacker was no serious physical threat to them and appears unarmed.

I'm glad, at least, that we can agree that Floyd did not deserve to die and should not have died, as the the police could have handled it so much better than they did.

Originally posted by Surtur
Does anyone know if that kneeling thing the cop did was something they were trained to do? I heard on the radio it was.

This doesn't justify it, but it just tells us even more that they need better training.

Discussions friends and I have had with friends in law enforcement seem to suggest so. Knee on the upper back seems to be a standard procedure.

What I found disturbing about said conversations, as with many other topics, is that they seemed much more concerned with what they were taught and allowed to do (procedures used to maintain physical control over others, in this case) than whether or not it caused another unnecessary harm or if it was indeed necessary to maintain control over an individual.

For example, you've probably already seen the body cam footage of this incident. Once again, there is a man who is not posing a physical threat to officers, yet is body slammed by a second officer, who was yet involved in questioning, before he had a real chance to respond or react.

YouTube video

Its not just that he didnt immediately comply. During the course of several minutes he exhibits various states of noncompliance.

And I know the cops chose this, but knowing the risks of what you signed up isn't going to help someone in the heat of the moment. This is not war and a lot of these guys have families they wanna come home to.

George Floyd should be alive, and we need to train cops in better ways to handle the mentally ill

"various states of non compliance"

He was down for 8 minutes and unresponsive for 3. Just stop trying to muddy the waters pls. There's no way to justify any of this.