Originally posted by Bashar Teg
in the states, if you have a clear exit, without no other lives in the home at stake, you have to take it.
No you don't. Only in two "states" do you have a duty to retreat.
Vermont and Washington DC.
23 states have a castle doctrine.
I literally just posted a link to this, earlier today, in this same thread:
Originally posted by dadudemon
Not all states have a castle doctrine.23 states have them:
https://worldpopulationreview.com/states/castle-doctrine-states/
But there are other laws (like "Stand your ground"😉 that also lend themselves to these scenarios.
Edit - 2 states have a "duty to retreat" law:
Vermont
Washington D.C.So those 2 states, you had better get out of the way and/or run. You aren't defending jack unless you have no cameras and can blindly claim they came after your person.
Originally posted by dadudemon
But, no, seriously.This is how I picture your reaction when seeing a home invader at your home:
whatever you imagine must be true
Originally posted by Surtur
I'm sorry you lack the mental capacity to engage in discussion about hypothetical situations.
don't you mean "you don't have the sac"? 🙄
Originally posted by Bashar Teg
[QUOTE=17189042]Originally posted by dadudemon
[B]But, no, seriously.
This is how I picture your reaction when seeing a home invader at your home:
And this is how I picture Surtur if he sees a home invader in his home:
whatever you imagine must be true [/B][/QUOTE]
I agree. My imagination is near prophetic levels of true.
Originally posted by Bashar Teg
because it related to a discussion of law/crime. i don't engage in "what i would do, bro" keyboard tough-guy fantasies like you. sorry.
Law doesn't exist in a vacuum though. Believe it or not even zero tolerance laws aren't unimpressed with extenuating circumstances.
A person without a license picking up a gun in defense of an officer for example.
In the case of home invasion, you said "If I can not retreat".
That works fine if it's only you. What if you live with extended family? Do you escape, call 911, and hope the kids or ailing grandparents are alright?
Do you try and get them out with you?
Murder may be murder, I agree. Maybe the law agrees its murder too.
I just know arguments like this always rely on hypotheticals in both directions, and I'm one to side with pragmatism over the law. If such law conflicted with the safety of myself, or my family.
Then you break the law and let the chips fall where they may.
Originally posted by cdtm
Law doesn't exist in a vacuum though. Believe it or not even zero tolerance laws aren't unimpressed with extenuating circumstances.A person without a license picking up a gun in defense of an officer for example.
In the case of home invasion, you said "If I can not retreat".
That works fine if it's only you. What if you live with extended family? Do you escape, call 911, and hope the kids or ailing grandparents are alright?
Do you try and get them out with you?
Murder may be murder, I agree. Maybe the law agrees its murder too.
I just know arguments like this always rely on hypotheticals in both directions, and I'm one to side with pragmatism over the law. If such law conflicted with the safety of myself, or my family.
Then you break the law and let the chips fall where they may.
Someone brought up the argument about not doing anything about it and people die like the arsonist being caught. The time it takes the police to arrive and perhaps the fire department to arrive, perhaps his neighbors have died from smoke inhalation.
That's victim blaming, though. It's not PVS' fault someone decided to burn down his apartment and killed his sleeping elderly neighbors because PVS didn't try to stop the arsonist. PVS is the victim, in this pretend scenario.
Originally posted by dadudemon
No you don't. Only in two "states" do you have a duty to retreat.Vermont and Washington DC.
23 states have a castle doctrine.
I literally just posted a link to this, earlier today, in this same thread:
the language is ambiguous. i see nothing which says i have the right to kill a burglar without being attacked. just says i'm not obligated to flee and may protect my property. does "property" include my computer? or does it only mean protect my actual home from arson?
Originally posted by Bashar Teg
the language is ambiguous. i see nothing which says i have the right to kill a burglar without being attacked.
Do you feel like calling a home invader of an occupied residence - just a "burglar" - to be a strawman?
This scenario qualifies as robbery and home invasion which is a step up from plain burglary. Some states group burglary and home invasion in the same category such as Georgia. But robbery is the next level...it's bad news for everyone.
i keep it like this and like that
Originally posted by Bashar Tegdid i miss something here?
if i/family had no means of retreat, then i could indeed use lethal force.however if i decided to not take an easy escape and use lethal force, just because i refuse to let them snatch my stuff, i could well end up in prison eating some of that ass-flavored grape jelly.
so i hope in return that YOU remember that, so that a burglary committed by someone else does not turn into a manslaughter charge for you 👆
if someone breaks into your home, they dont announce what specific illegal activity they came there to do. they might have just broken in to steal your computer, or they might have broken in to brutally rape and kill your entire family. thats not a chance i am willing to take....if someone was willing to break into MY home, i am going to assume they mean me or my family harm, and i will take the appropriate actions to protect myself and my family. as should everyone who doesnt want to become a victim.
tl;dr
stop being such a goddamn pussy.👆
Originally posted by dadudemon
Do you feel like calling a home invader of an occupied residence - just a "burglar" - to be a strawman?This scenario qualifies as robbery and home invasion which is a step up from plain burglary. Some states group burglary and home invasion in the same category such as Georgia. But robbery is the next level...it's bad news for everyone.
Doesn't answer my question. lets say I'm in a two story home, wake up to some noise downstairs. grab my pistol and walk downstairs just in time to see a thief about to walk out the door with my imac. do I have the right to shoot him in the back? I don't believe that I do, yet that iMac is my property. what do you think? That's where I was going. not strawman
Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
did i miss something here?if someone breaks into your home, they dont announce what specific illegal activity they came there to do. they might have just broken in to steal your computer, or they might have broken in to brutally rape and kill your entire family. thats not a chance i am willing to take....if someone was willing to break into MY home, i am going to assume they mean me or my family harm, and i will take the appropriate actions to protect myself and my family. as should everyone who doesnt want to become a victim.
tl;dr
stop being such a goddamn pussy.👆
Tough as nailz, yo. exactly why this topic can't be discussed maturely
Originally posted by Bashar Teg
Doesn't answer my question. lets say I'm in a two story home, wake up to some noise downstairs. grab my pistol and walk downstairs just in time to see a thief about to walk out the door with my imac. do I have the right to shoot him in the back? I don't believe that I do, yet that iMac is my property. what do you think? That's where I was going. not strawmanTough as nailz, yo. exactly why this topic can't be discussed maturely
No, I don't believe you do either.
This actually did happen. I forget if it was here or in the UK, but either way running out your door to shoot a burglar running up your walkway wouldn't end well anywhere for the home owner.
Originally posted by Bashar TegYou will be shot in my own home!
Doesn't answer my question. lets say I'm in a two story home, wake up to some noise downstairs. grab my pistol and walk downstairs just in time to see a thief about to walk out the door with my imac. do I have the right to shoot him in the back? I don't believe that I do, yet that iMac is my property. what do you think? That's where I was going. not strawmanTough as nailz, yo. exactly why this topic can't be discussed maturely