The GDF Septic Tank (Official Off Topic)

Originally posted by Blakemore
So, Elliot is male and you are a gay male who is attracted to men. What is it about him you don't find attractive? The lack of penis?

No, Elliot is not male. He is a man. The former denotes sex, the latter denotes gender. Sexual orientation is characterized by a persistent attraction to members of a particular sex, not a particular gender. I am gay, because I have a male body and I am attracted to people with male bodies. I may initially be attracted to a man who is not male, because he has adopted gender signifiers of people with male bodies, but if he does not have a male body, my attraction quickly dissipates. For others, that may not necessarily be the case. I happen to have a very binary and fixed sexual orientation, but others may be less so. And for them, their attraction to the gender signifiers may be enough.

Originally posted by samhain
I'm trying to figure out what's in that plastic jar in front of him. Cheese puffs? Boiled eggs still in the shell? LMK Bada.

They are obviously cheese balls. But I have my eyes on a different set.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
No, Elliot is not male. He is a man. The former denotes sex, the latter denotes gender. Sexual orientation is characterized by a persistent attraction to members of a particular sex, not a particular gender. I am gay, because I have a male body and I am attracted to people with male bodies. I may initially be attracted to a man who is not male, because he has adopted gender signifiers of people with male bodies, but if he does not have a male body, my attraction quickly dissipates. For others, that may not necessarily be the case. I happen to have a very binary and fixed sexual orientation, but others may be less so. And for them, their attraction to the gender signifiers may be enough.

Originally posted by Blakemore
I....see. All this identity politics really annoys me. I'm sorry, I'll respect people enough in the workplace and Ive grown out of trolling (for the most part) but personally, I'm just not buying it.

It has nothing to do with identity politics, and everything to do with incorporating new information into your beliefs.

We have more information about sex, gender, orientation, and identity today than we did when we formed or were socialized the beliefs we hold about those things.

It can be overwhelming and confusing to learn new things, particularly if they challenge our foundational knowledge, but that does not make them illegitimate.

Hey, if they wanna pay for surgery or hormone therapy to look different then fine. I just hope it's safe and they know the risks. It aint my body.

Originally posted by Blakemore
Hey, if they wanna pay for surgery or hormone therapy to look different then fine. I just hope it's safe and they know the risks. It aint my body.

Allow me to explain.

Sex: My sex is male. I have an XY phenotype and a male body.

Sexual Orientation: My sexual orientation is homosexual (gay). I have a male body and I am attracted to people with male bodies.

Gender: This one is tricky for many people. "Man" is a gender. Gender is a role we assign to people at birth on the basis of their sex. Which brings us to ...

Gender Identity: Most people identify with the role they have been assigned, but not always. Because Elliot is female, he was assigned the role of girl/woman at birth. Since Elliot identifies as a man, he transitioned to that role from the one he was assigned. Which brings us to ...

Gender Signifiers: These are the set of expectations a given society has for certain gender roles. It is how they are to act, speak, look, dress, etc. In order to be recognized by others as occupying the gender role of a man, Elliot may adopt many of those gender signifiers.

Now, because "man" is a role we assign to people with male bodies, and most people who occupy the role of "man" also happen to have male bodies, many of the gender signifiers of "man" may signal that these people have male bodies, but that is not necessarily the case.

Which is why one who is attracted exclusively to male bodies may initially be attracted to someone who presents man signifiers, but would quickly not be attracted to him if he did not have a male body.

Still others, who are less binary or fixed in their attractions, may be attracted enough by the signifiers alone, regardless of sex.

Her character on Umbrella Academy was kind of annoying.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Allow me to explain.

Sex: My sex is male. I have an XY phenotype and a male body.

Sexual Orientation: My sexual orientation is homosexual (gay). I have a male body and I am attracted to people with male bodies.

Gender: This one is tricky for many people. "Man" is a gender. Gender is a role we assign to people at birth on the basis of their sex. Which brings us to ...

Gender Identity: Most people identify with the role they have been assigned, but not always. Because Elliot is female, he was assigned the role of girl/woman at birth. Since Elliot identifies as a man, he transitioned to that role from the one he was assigned. Which brings us to ...

Gender Signifiers: These are the set of expectations a given society has for certain gender roles. It is how they are to act, speak, look, dress, etc. In order to be recognized by others as occupying the gender role of a man, Elliot may adopt many of those gender signifiers.

Now, because "man" is a role we assign to people with male bodies, and most people who occupy the role of "man" also happen to have male bodies, many of the gender signifiers of "man" may signal that these people have male bodies, but that is not necessarily the case.

Which is why one who is attracted exclusively to male bodies may initially be attracted to someone who presents man signifiers, but would quickly not be attracted to him if he did not have a male body.

Still others, who are less binary or fixed in their attractions, may be attracted enough by the signifiers alone, regardless of sex.

Men and women have different shaped foreheads. Sorry.

Originally posted by Blakemore
Yeah, I understand all of that...

This implies you do not:

Originally posted by Blakemore
...but what about scent and pheromones? Kinda hard to cover up.

Our attractions are based on our perceptions. That is why Ben Shapiro's "biological pronoun" argument is so laughable. We are not phenotype detectors. If we are exclusively attracted to males, and we perceive someone with man signifiers as male, we may find ourselves initially attracted to them. But if we learn, though pheromones in your example, or some other way, that they are not male, then we will find ourselves no longer attracted to them. That is no different than initially being attracted to a woman because of her gender signifiers, and learning later that her hair is colored, she has on make-up, and is wearing a waist-trainer and a push-up bra. You were initially attracted to her presentation, and for some people, that is enough to still be attracted to her. But for others, if that is not what she looks like naked, it is not going to work.

Originally posted by Blakemore
I remember when I did representation of trans in my film course where there were 6 pictures of people's faces, all looked very similar, but even I could identify which were trans and which were born female just by looking at the forehead.

Men and women have different shaped foreheads. Sorry.

And? What does this have to do with anything?

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
This implies you do not:

Our attractions are based on our perceptions. That is why Ben Shapiro's "biological pronoun" argument is so laughable. We are not phenotype detectors. If we are exclusively attracted to males, and we perceive someone with man signifiers as male, we may find ourselves initially attracted to them. But if we learn, though pheromones in your example, or some other way, that they are not male, then we will find ourselves no longer attracted to them. That is no different than initially being attracted to a woman because of her gender signifiers, and learning later that her hair is colored, she has on make-up, and is wearing a waist-trainer and a push-up bra. You were initially attracted to her presentation, and for some people, that is enough to still be attracted to her. But for others, if that is not what she looks like naked, it is not going to work.

And? What does this have to do with anything?

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
This implies you do not:

Our attractions are based on our perceptions. That is why Ben Shapiro's "biological pronoun" argument is so laughable. We are not phenotype detectors. If we are exclusively attracted to males, and we perceive someone with man signifiers as male, we may find ourselves initially attracted to them. But if we learn, though pheromones in your example, or some other way, that they are not male, then we will find ourselves no longer attracted to them. That is no different than initially being attracted to a woman because of her gender signifiers, and learning later that her hair is colored, she has on make-up, and is wearing a waist-trainer and a push-up bra. You were initially attracted to her presentation, and for some people, that is enough to still be attracted to her. But for others, if that is not what she looks like naked, it is not going to work.

And? What does this have to do with anything?

The laws of attraction may be more complicated under the hood then we think.

I've read studies on how birth control pills suppress a function in women that detects compatibility in mates, from for example a kiss. As soon as they go off the pills, their perceptions of their partner shift (For better or worse)

Originally posted by cdtm
The laws of attraction may be more complicated under the hood then we think.

I've read studies on how birth control pills suppress a function in women that detects compatibility in mates, from for example a kiss. As soon as they go off the pills, their perceptions of their partner shift (For better or worse)

I do not know how such a study could draw any meaningful conclusions, there are too many variables to control for.

I shall make spicy chili tonight

Maybe some cheddar biscuits

Originally posted by Surtur
I shall make spicy chili tonight

Maybe some cheddar biscuits

pics of this food or its all lies

I accept your challenge good sir.

Originally posted by Surtur
I shall make spicy chili tonight

Maybe some cheddar biscuits

Isn't all chili spicy by definition? Then again I suppose I've eaten varieties that were nothing more than lasagne filling.

I guess it depends on how you cook it, you can tweak it to be pretty tame. Though you can tweak it in the opposite direction too.

Which is what I shall be doing

almost 4 hours later and no pics.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
I think men who work out have a tendency to go too lean. I think men actually look better with a little extra weight. Like in the 20–24% body fat range. Even a little belly is okay if he has some muscles. If you are too lean, you lose the fat padding in your face, and it makes you look older too. It is a weird contradiction, because I work to be really fit, but I am attracted to guys with dad bods.

usually for us old folks, getting fit is not sex-motivated. in fact we're mostly just trying to not get laid by the grim reaper

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
I think men who work out have a tendency to go too lean. I think men actually look better with a little extra weight. Like in the 20–24% body fat range. Even a little belly is okay if he has some muscles. If you are too lean, you lose the fat padding in your face, and it makes you look older too. It is a weird contradiction, because I work to be really fit, but I am attracted to guys with dad bods.