Originally posted by Robtard
While White lives do matter and 'all lives matter' as well, they're used as a means to downplay the institutional racism and abuse Black people get in the US. The gaslighters who do it know exactly what they're doing when they do it.
You can't just throw that stance out as if that's how every person who says that feels. If I say all lives matter, that's what I mean. It doesn't mean that I don't care about Black lives. It means I care more about proper policing so that all lives are protected rather than trying to make this purely a race issue.
I agree with DDM that the BLM movement doesn't seem to actually be concerned with saving Black lives, and are more concerned with getting even with white people. If they were actually concerned with Black lives, then Black on Black crime would definitely be the greater issue here. I'm all for calling out police brutality and demanding greater training and policing of our police force, but this movement is purely race baiting. Make a movement that really cares about Black lives, or all lives for that matter, and I will 100% be behind it.
Originally posted by socool8520
You can't just throw that stance out as if that's how every person who says that feels. If I say all lives matter, that's what I mean. It doesn't mean that I don't care about Black lives. It means I care more about proper policing so that all lives are protected rather than trying to make this purely a race issue.I agree with DDM that the BLM movement doesn't seem to actually be concerned with saving Black lives, and are more concerned with getting even with white people. If they were actually concerned with Black lives, then Black on Black crime would definitely be the greater issue here. I'm all for calling out police brutality and demanding greater training and policing of our police force, but this movement is purely race baiting. Make a movement that really cares about Black lives, or all lives for that matter, and I will 100% be behind it.
When black people are being disproportionately killed by police, it is a race issue. Imagine that instead of black people being disproportionately killed by police, the issue is the homes of black people being disproporionately targeted for arson. Would you then chime in and say, "I know black people are being disproportionately targeted for this crime, but actually, All Homes Matter"? No, because it would make you an *******.
Black Lives Matter was organized in response to black people, particularly black men, being disproportionately killed by police. That is their primary issue of concern. It is the reason they exist, and their primary focus. So why in the hell should they address black criminals targeting black people for violence? Most violence committed against white victims is by white perpetrators, but I do not see anyone suggesting that "something really needs to be done about white-on-white crime."
If you are truly "all for calling out police brutality and demanding greater training and policing of our police force," then you should have no problem doing that without caveats and conditions. Right now, you appear to be reticent to do so, because you see the "Black Lives Matter" slogan as exclusionary, which suggests that you care about those issues, but not enough to become involved if the efforts are not centered on a group to which you belong.
Originally posted by dadudemon
I don't know what you're talking about in all of this, right here. You're incorrect if you claim they are not covered in those stats: they are. Literally. It's literally the foundations of those stats. A black dead body is a black dead body and all those dead bodies are counted and broken out including the suicides in other data sets. I can't even comprehend what you are trying to accomplish, here.By pretending like those dead bodies don't matter because they are of known crimes, you are performing mental gymnastics to avoid reality and it appears very racist of you and anyone who does that.
In 70% of cases, yes. But 30% of those offenders are not black.
You DO know we also collect data on victimization, right?
https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv18.pdf
Why is it that you want to fight so strongly against the fact that black people are being murdered so much? It seems like such a racist stance to take. What is your real objective, here?
Seems clear to me.
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
When black people are being disproportionately killed by police, it is a race issue. Imagine that instead of black people being disproportionately killed by police, the issue is the homes of black people being disproporionately targeted for arson. Would you then chime in and say, "I know black people are being disproportionately targeted for this crime, but actually, All Homes Matter"? No, because it would make you an *******.Black Lives Matter was organized in response to black people, particularly black men, being disproportionately killed by police. That is their primary issue of concern. It is the reason they exist, and their primary focus. So why in the hell should they address black criminals targeting black people for violence? Most violence committed against white victims is by white perpetrators, but I do not see anyone suggesting that "something really needs to be done about white-on-white crime."
If you are truly "all for calling out police brutality and demanding greater training and policing of our police force," then you should have no problem doing that without caveats and conditions. Right now, you appear to be reticent to do so, because you see the "Black Lives Matter" slogan as exclusionary, which suggests that you care about those issues, but not enough to become involved if the efforts are not centered on a group to which you belong.
They also have a disproportionate involvement in criminal activity. It's unfortunate, but it's true. This does not excuse police brutality though, but it will skew the death numbers. Again, I'm all for calling out the police, but for everyone.
Why is this primary issue of concern? It's not even close to the leading cause of death of Black people in America. I would certainly address the issue that was most prominent in destroying people over a much smaller one. That's just me though I guess. If one truly cares for black people, they will tackle all the issues no? And logically, it would be the most serious right?
You're right, but white people also weren't talking about white lives matter either until the BLM movement.
I have stated there should be better training for Police many times, for the betterment of all people. If we want to improve the lives of Black people, however, this isn't even close to the biggest issue to tackle.
Originally posted by socool8520
They also have a disproportionate involvement in criminal activity. It's unfortunate, but it's true. This does not excuse police brutality though, but it will skew the death numbers. Again, I'm all for calling out the police, but for everyone.Why is this primary issue of concern? It's not even close to the leading cause of death of Black people in America. I would certainly address the issue that was most prominent in destroying people over a much smaller one. That's just me though I guess. If one truly cares for black people, they will tackle all the issues no? And logically, it would be the most serious right?
You're right, but white people also weren't talking about white lives matter either until the BLM movement.
I have stated there should be better training for Police many times, for the betterment of all people. If we want to improve the lives of Black people, however, this isn't even close to the biggest issue to tackle.
Bingo! 👆
Re: White Lives Matter banner flew over football game
Originally posted by Darth Thor
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53145201Poor white people. So oppressed in the world today.
Says the white guy
Originally posted by socool8520
They also have a disproportionate involvement in criminal activity. It's unfortunate, but it's true. This does not excuse police brutality though, but it will skew the death numbers. Again, I'm all for calling out the police, but for everyone.Why is this primary issue of concern? It's not even close to the leading cause of death of Black people in America. I would certainly address the issue that was most prominent in destroying people over a much smaller one. That's just me though I guess. If one truly cares for black people, they will tackle all the issues no? And logically, it would be the most serious right?
You're right, but white people also weren't talking about white lives matter either until the BLM movement.
I have stated there should be better training for Police many times, for the betterment of all people. If we want to improve the lives of Black people, however, this isn't even close to the biggest issue to tackle.
Doubtful if you will get a response other than “no you”
Originally posted by socool8520
They also have a disproportionate involvement in criminal activity. It's unfortunate, but it's true. This does not excuse police brutality though, but it will skew the death numbers. Again, I'm all for calling out the police, but for everyone.Why is this primary issue of concern? It's not even close to the leading cause of death of Black people in America. I would certainly address the issue that was most prominent in destroying people over a much smaller one. That's just me though I guess. If one truly cares for black people, they will tackle all the issues no? And logically, it would be the most serious right?
You're right, but white people also weren't talking about white lives matter either until the BLM movement.
I have stated there should be better training for Police many times, for the betterment of all people. If we want to improve the lives of Black people, however, this isn't even close to the biggest issue to tackle.
Plus there is ZERO reason they couldn't pick up the notion that black on black violence kills (vast majority of black deaths) and put that under their banner at the sametime, makes the movement far more genuine.
But that wouldn't fit a narrative so you know 😘
Originally posted by dadudemon
I don't know what you're talking about in all of this, right here. You're incorrect if you claim they are not covered in those stats: they are. Literally. It's literally the foundations of those stats. A black dead body is a black dead body and all those dead bodies are counted and broken out including the suicides in other data sets. I can't even comprehend what you are trying to accomplish, here.
You are claiming (correct me if I'm wrong), that we can basically judge racism by comparing the number of violent offenders of each race, to the numbers of homicides to that particular race.
What I'm saying is:
1) That would assume homicides are a direct result of offenders being violent. But the few cases that lead to the BLM protests had nothing to do with violence.
2) Stats Can Not measure racism. In fact your stats by their nature are presuming there is no inherent racism in making these arrests.
Originally posted by dadudemon
By pretending like those dead bodies don't matter because they are of known crimes, you are performing mental gymnastics to avoid reality and it appears very racist of you and anyone who does that.
I never once implied dead bodies do not matter. Neither is making claims of me performing mental gymnastics a proper rebuttal to the points I am making.
I'm addressing your specific way of measuring racism, by comparing dead bodies of a race to violent crimes of the same race. There's just so many flaws in that logic for reasons I've already pointed out.
Originally posted by dadudemon
In 70% of cases, yes. But 30% of those offenders are not black.You DO know we also collect data on victimization, right?
https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv18.pdf
Why is it that you want to fight so strongly against the fact that black people are being murdered so much? It seems like such a racist stance to take. What is your real objective, here?
Okay you're going a bit loopy here now accusing me of racism. And trying to come out with a conspiracy of what I'm trying to prove.
I was simply baffled by your stats because it seems clear to me that as a black person has a much higher likliehood of being killed by police than a white person.
So Let me explain this to you again. Try to stay logical in your rebuttal without getting defensive or making accusations (which I seem to be getting a lot from the non-lefties around here).
You are claiming less black people are killed in comparison to the violent crimes they commit, implying police only come and kill when a violent crime is involved.
The you talk about all the black dead bodies as proof of black violence. So I assumed you were talking about black on black violence.
So I'm asking you are you claiming police mostly kill black people whilst trying to defend other black people?
Originally posted by snowdragon
Plus there is ZERO reason they couldn't pick up the notion that black on black violence kills (vast majority of black deaths) and put that under their banner at the sametime, makes the movement far more genuine.But that wouldn't fit a narrative so you know 😘
Because the movement is against inherent racism especially in the establishment. Presumably blacks do not kill blacks because they are racist towards blacks.
But I'm pretty sure the victims families are not okay with it. Not are the black families scared for their kids in those neighbourhoods.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Because the movement is against inherent racism especially in the establishment. Presumably blacks do not kill blacks because they are racist towards blacks.But I'm pretty sure the victims families are not okay with it. Not are the black families scared for their kids in those neighbourhoods.
The movement should change its name then.
HCA. Hold Cops Accountable. Boom, right on point and they can freely ignore the rampant black on black violence without having to worry about being questioned over it. Then they can stop deflecting and blaming outside forces for every single problem in the community. After all, the name says hold cops accountable, not them.
Because the movement is against inherent racism especially in the establishment. Presumably blacks do not kill blacks because they are racist towards blacks.But I'm pretty sure the victims families are not okay with it.
There are just about more deaths in a long weekend in Chicago from black on black violence then an entire year of the whole USA.
Not are the black families scared for their kids in those neighbourhoods.
Did you mistype this sentance, I'm not clear on it.
The movement should change its name then.HCA. Hold Cops Accountable. Boom, right on point and they can freely ignore the rampant black on black violence without having to worry about being questioned over it. Then they can stop deflecting and blaming outside forces for every single problem in the community. After all, the name says hold cops accountable, not them.
Perfect
Originally posted by socool8520
They also have a disproportionate involvement in criminal activity. It's unfortunate, but it's true. This does not excuse police brutality though, but it will skew the death numbers.
Bingo, and it might not excuse the brutality, but it perhaps offers us up an explanation for the number of deaths and number in prison that goes beyond simply "it's racism".
It's mostly a training issue, and tragedies as a result of this training are obviously going to be more likely to occur in places with a higher police presence. Likewise, arrests for drug offenses are gonna be more frequent in areas with more cops.
Originally posted by Surtur
Bingo, and it might not excuse the brutality, but it perhaps offers us up an explanation for the number of deaths and number in prison that goes beyond simply "it's racism".It's mostly a training issue, and tragedies as a result of this training are obviously going to be more likely to occur in places with a higher police presence.
Right but the war on drugs has caused alot of pain in the black communities which is a serious problem, probably more so then blm overall. Alot of prison cells filled with wasted drug incarcerations.