----------- !!! Herald [Low & Mid] Tourney !!!! -----------

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I signed up for a BZ against Supermutant. Not Supermutant and Smurph. You inserting yourself and making arguments for Supermutant isn't your job as judge.

The fact that even Phil is coming in here and arguing against it,a OWS the faulty nature of your ruling.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So wait.

Your initial reply was that it wasn't your job to accept my points UNLESS Supermutant argued against them.

Now you are saying Supermutant DIDN'T actually make a specific argument against it, but you disagree with it anyway? WTH?

If Super disagreed with my interpretation, then he would have argued against it, and I would have countered [b]and destroyed his argument. It is NOT your job to make his arguments for him. You then keep making the point that 'based on what was posted and argued' - but Super never argued that 2d lines =/= 2d points.

Ultimately, your judgement was based not on what Super argued, but on your own feeling. Which isn't based on anything presented by Super, despite what you say.

It's like giving a ruling and saying 'well, Super and DS both make good points, but I don't think any of the scans used were canon, and even though nobody mentioned canonicity, and nobody gets the chance to even argue against it (because nobody brought it up), I will say they are all non canon/alt. reality characters'. [/B]

JUSTICE!!!

THIS IS RETRIBUTION FOR EVERY SINGLE UNJUSTIFED AND OUTRAGEOUS VOTE YOU RECEIVED AGAINST ME IN THE BATTLEZONE!!!

We may not revert verdicts, but if there’s a very clear and demonstrable mistake made by a judge, like attributing arguments not made by the poster to the poster and basing their decision on that, it makes sense that we could null the vote and look for another judge 🤷‍♂️ For the sake of fairness.

Holy shit, this whole thing feels crazy.

I didn’t attribute any argument to any poster. I just found that Darksaint never proved his own statements about his shields.

I’ve been in more battlezones and tourneys than any other poster in this thread and I’ve had plenty of judges find that they were not sold on the things I was claiming. This is no different: I just wasn’t sold on equating the RFG feat to blocking the Atom. Without other evidence to support Darksaint’s claim, I just didn’t side with him on the thing that turned out to be the central issue of the match.

Edit: Nevermind. Happy to chat by PM about it if need be.

I’m not saying you did by the way ! Just that should it happen, it makes sense we could reverse it.

Originally posted by Smurph
No, I didn’t make up an argument. I just read the scan and disagreed with Darksaint’s repeated summary of it.

Galan, feel free to replace me as a judge for the finals. I obviously don’t think my votes are misplaced, but this is already a chore without the tantrums and now it’s derailing the thread.

Except how would any BZ contestant ever know?

It clearly says what it says. I made a summary of it. Supermutatnt didn't disagree with it, didn't attack the specific point you are attacking.

So how am I ever to post a rebuttal, given the 10,000 character limit that we have?

Nobody proved that their scans were Post Crisis, for example. Nobody questioned. I can't rebut imaginary points that nobody in the actual BZ brought up.

That's like me judging the next BZ, and saying in my judgement - well,
Alberto never actually posted any scans saying that the Hulk he used is 616 Hulk, so I am going to ignore all of his post....

Nonsensical.

Now that the drama has ceased for a moment and My OP is in

Originally posted by Supermutant
So who are the judges this time?

lol guess I was wrong.

Lol well....you used Pre Crisis and n52 scans in your posts, for example.

Should judges have written about it? I mean, I didn't bring them up specifically.

Sent my OP to Galan.

This match should be...interesting.

I'll send mine in a few hours.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol well....you used Pre Crisis and n52 scans in your posts, for example.

Should judges have written about it? I mean, I didn't bring them up specifically.

I agreed to the judges so if they didn't buy something, so be it.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Except how would any BZ contestant ever know?

I reached for an analogy to explain why the scan didn’t convince me, and clearly I should have worded things better or just been more brief because it’s now fueled pages of whining. But the bottom line is that two judges separately decided you over-relied on that feat. Judges aren’t making arguments, they’re just looking at the scans and the debate and telling you what they found convincing.

Anyways, it looks like my vote isn’t getting thrown out, and I’m not judging the finals, so it’s old news for this thread. Sorry that you lost - it was a very close match.

Originally posted by Smurph
It’s not an issue of canon or 616 or anything like that. You were confident your shields could shut out Atom and you had three posts to prove that. You heavily relied on one scan and it was a stretch. It wasn’t about counter arguments and rebuttals. You just didn’t provide enough support for that claim (in my opinion).

I reached for an analogy to explain why the scan didn’t convince me, and clearly I should have worded things better or just been more brief because it’s now fueled pages of whining. But the bottom line is that two judges separately decided you over-relied on that feat. Judges aren’t making arguments, they’re just looking at the scans and the debate and telling you what they found convincing.

Anyways, it looks like my vote isn’t getting thrown out, and I’m not judging the finals, so it’s old news for this thread. Sorry that you lost - it was a very close match.

Overrelied?

It's a BZ, not a respect thread. If I had one scan of ,say, Superman lifting a pencil, and my opponent doesn't question him lifting it (but instead attacks the pencil's properties).…I don't need to waste further characters with multiple lifting scans.

Super questioned specific points about my scan -and I engaged him on all of them.

You coming in and bringing up a brand new point that he didn't and basing your decision on that point ,makes A: Supermutant's posts all moot and B: the point of a BZ useless.

/shrug

This obviously isn’t going anywhere, and it’s now moot.

Finals are posted! Good luck guys 👆

Yep, finals are up:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f105/t670394.html

Good luck to all. 👆

________________

We also need to get a few more judges for this match. I'd like a total of 5 ideally.

I'm available to judge 👆

As am I !

Good luck guys! This is a hilarious start.

We may not revert verdicts, but if there’s a very clear and demonstrable mistake made by a judge, like attributing arguments not made by the poster to the poster and basing their decision on that, it makes sense that we could null the vote and look for another judge 🤷‍♂️ For the sake of fairness.

As I see it, that really isnt what happened here.
Your verdict and Smurph's were pretty much the same, Smurph just worded it stronger. Your own post implied that you questioned the shields vs Atom's shrinking. At the very least you said it would not stop him all the time enough to a win out of 10

I have had enough verdicts in Tourney's go against me becasue a Judge didnt buy what I was saying despite the scans. One such tourney would have been vs Smurph where two judges discounted a combat speed advantage shown in my scans as it was only a few scans in a long history and others of my scans showed it not being employed. It happens, doesnt mean that the judge debated for the opponent just that the argument didnt convonce them

Oh sure, I don’t think Smurph did anything wrong either, I just questioned as to why we could reverse verdicts if they were indeed proven to be faulty like in the example I gave.