Thor vs. Aquaman in the arm-wrestling competition.

Originally posted by Delta1938
He's arguing examples where Superman's flight is DISABLED, because he's speculating Superman using his flight like TK to amp his strength like he's using flight to push it up.

He's trying to argue an analogy, but it's faulty at best.

We know Superman has used his power of flight to move heavy objects before. We know he always has access to his flight. Therefore we know his lifting feats could also just be augmented by his flight powers.

It logically makes sense. There is nothing stopping Superman from doing this. You can't actually provide enough information on his flight powers to negate the idea either. And there would be no reason for Superman not to use his flight powers to augment his lifting feats. Heck you guys actually posted once where the writer's intent was his version of Superman's flight powers to do exactly that.

Once again logically makes sense. We don't throw out Superman's strength feats though because we know he has flight as a tool. Just like you shouldn't throw out Thor's striking feats to showcase his power just because he has his tool at his disposal.

Just because you can explicitly see when one tool gets used over the other doesn't mean the ability to use a tool like flight goes away

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not knowing how Superman flies is not equal to Superman uses his flight to lift things.

You've yet to show a single scan for your fanfiction.
Nobody said that Superman is scientific.

Yet you try to apply pure scientific principles to Thor's strikes when we know science in comics is really wonky.

Which is once again why writer's intention is important as well. Do we know Thor's hammer helps. It stands to reason yes. Do we also know that the writers showing Thor doing things while striking with his hammer is their way of showing Thor's power also yes.

Just because the waters murky doesn't mean the feats are unusable especially to show the power level Thor is on for reference. Especially in matches like this. If for instance Thor can swing a hammer hard enough to crack nearby celestial bodies then he is definitely strong enough to beat Aquaman in arm wrestling with very little problem as far as I am aware.

Originally posted by Newjak

Actually we do know Superman has used his flight to move objects before 🙄

Yet you try to apply pure scientific principles to Thor's strikes when we know science in comics is really wonky.

Once in his 80+ years of history by one writer.

Its not science, writers have outright shown mjolnir increases striking power of Thor.

Which is once again why writer's intention is important as well. Do we know Thor's hammer helps. It stands to reason yes. Do we also know that the writers showing Thor doing things while striking with his hammer is their way of showing Thor's power also yes.

No, they don't. Its Thor+mjolnir.

Just because the waters murky doesn't mean the feats are unusable especially to show the power level Thor is on for reference. Especially in matches like this. If for instance Thor can swing a hammer hard enough to crack nearby celestial bodies then he is definitely strong enough to beat Aquaman in arm wrestling with very little problem as far as I am aware. [/B]

Nobody is serious about this fight. Its your disengenous argument about why Superman's feats are unusable because he flies and correlating it to Thor's feats aided by mjolnir.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Once in his 80+ years of history by one writer.

Its not science, writers have outright shown mjolnir increases striking power of Thor.

No, they don't. Its Thor+mjolnir.

Nobody is serious about this fight. Its your disengenous argument about why Superman's feats are unusable because he flies and correlating it to Thor's feats aided by mjolnir.

You don't seem to have a concept of context. There was only once when it was explicitly mentioned that Superman can lift things easier because of his flight ie augment strength.

That isn't the only time he has ever moved objects using his flight powers before. Technically every time he flies a human around it's his flight moving the mass from one point to another. Which means we know Superman's flight power can exert force on objects. Which means it can help aid him in lifting things technically. Even if you ignore the Byrne era force field part.

Therefore there is nothing logically stopping Superman from using his power of flight to augment his ability to move or lift objects.

Originally posted by abhilegend

No, they don't. Its Thor+mjolnir.

The only reason to ignore writer's intent in this case of striking power with Thor, where the intention is to showcase his power, is simply for the sake of winning comic battles lol.

Originally posted by Newjak
Actually Superman flies around all the time while carrying things lol.

You don't seem to have a concept of context. There was only once when it was explicitly mentioned that Superman can lift things easier because of his flight ie augment strength.

You're getting that backwards too. His flight made weights lighter, not augmented his strength.

None of the other writers have mentioned his flight makes weights lighter.

Originally posted by Philosophía
[B]All Juntai was agreeing upon was that during the Byrne era, what you posted concerning something other than his strength being at work when he lifted things while flying was true but, like I said, most of what was written during that era was either retconned or completly pulled out of continuity which Juntai also agrees upon.

It would be easier for me to just prove that period is out of continuity, but, if you really want proof directly contradicting that.. I'll elaborate on why it has changed. Here's another scan besides the one you posted where Superman clearly states that that while flying he moves objects by sheer force of will and not by strength. (see how generous I am, giving you arguments uhuh)

Would a scan like this, for example, prove that he still needs his strength moving things even after flying ? (pre Dos/ZH)

No? How about something even better ?

"With my super-strength back..."

Want something [b]even better ? Here not only is it stated that he uses super-strength while flying and moving an object by the writer but due to fluctuations in his super-strength he actually goes through the plane.

Truth is, besides some comments made in a few comics from the Byrne era, the 'super strength not being needed while flying' stuff hasn't really been accepted as a part of Superman's abilities (even some writers from that period seemed to ignore this) and especially after the ZH period it is made quite clear that's not the case.

It took quite some time to find this scans...you're lucky your username is Darthgoober and not Quarver Zone (man do I love this nickname) or something. (not that you're not also a fanboy, but at least I like reading most of your posts .. uhuh) [/B]

That isn't the only time he has ever moved objects using his flight powers before. Technically every time he flies a human around it's his flight moving the mass from one point to another. Which means we know Superman's flight power can exert force on objects. Which means it can help aid him in lifting things technically. Even if you ignore the Byrne era force field part.

I don't want technical things here. Post scans to support your fanfiction. I'm not here to debate whether Superman is scientific or not.

Therefore there is nothing logically stopping Superman from using his power of flight to augment his ability to move or lift objects. [/B]

You don't seem to get this in your skull, I don't care about technicalities or logical extrapolations. Bring proof or drop this idiocy.

Originally posted by Newjak
Exactly you've decided to apply science in this instance where we know using hammers help people hit with more force but from a scientific standpoint Superman's flight power could in fact help him augment his lifting feats all the time as well.

The only reason to ignore writer's intent in this case of striking power with Thor, where the intention is to showcase his power, is simply for the sake of winning comic battles lol.

In case you need to hear this, I don't care about scientific extrapolations in fiction. Bring proof.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I have actual comics showing Thor's striking power is increased by mjolnir and you're stuck at scientific explanations.

In case you need to hear this, I don't care about scientific extrapolations in fiction. Bring proof.

Technically the only proof needed to showcase that Superman can use his flight powers to help him lift something would be to show him flying with heavy objects. Geeze I wonder if those exist.

Also I don't really take things posted by @Philo very seriously. The man is an egotistical narcissist that believes much too highly of himself.

Like when talking about the abilities of a flying durable alien that has already been shown to fly around with heavy objects that don't tear apart he decided to use a weird junkyard example that ignores the fact this is a comic book 😂

Then he decided to parade around his 'superiority' because I'm willing to bet his ego is tied around to his ability to feel smarter then other people.

Originally posted by Newjak
😆 I find it funny how you talk about ignoring science then ask for proof.

Why? Are we on a science forum?

Technically the only proof needed to showcase that Superman can use his flight powers to help him lift something would be to show him flying with heavy objects. Geeze I wonder if those exist.

No, it wouldn't.

Also I don't really take things posted by @Philo very seriously. The man is an egotistical narcissist that believes much too highly of himself.

Phil is ten times the poster you are.

Like when talking about the abilities of a flying durable alien that has already been shown to fly around with heavy objects that don't tear apart he decided to use a weird junkyard example that ignores the fact this is a comic book 😂

Then he decided to parade around his 'superiority' because I'm willing to bet his ego is tied around to his ability to feel smarter then other people.

Well in likelihood he seems smarter than you. Nobody requires him to be humble about it.

...This isn't a Superman thread.

Apologies. If only Newjak considered it so.

It's a Phildo thread.

And tbh, his examples and analogies were apt, if a bit shit at MSPaint.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Why? Are we on a science forum?

No, it wouldn't.

Phil is ten times the poster you are.

Well in likelihood he seems smarter than you. Nobody requires him to be humble about it.

Correction Phil and you guys think he is. Phil is mostly just an educated j@ckass that acts smarter than he is and you guys happen to agree with him so you ignore it.

It makes it much easier to see someone as smart when you think they're presenting your side with great arguments that are fundamentally flawed or ignoring context. Like Philo's junkyard example.

For instance it assumes that Superman's flight only propels him him from behind when we don't know how it actually propels him. We also don't know if he can exert his ability to fly on certain parts of his limbs which would help re enforce them from the falling car.

All things we don't absolutely know but Philo makes assumptions about because he wants to put other people down.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It's a Phildo thread.

And tbh, his examples and analogies were apt, if a bit shit at MSPaint.

For one it ignores that this is a comic book world that ignores physics all the time.

Next he makes assumptions on Superman's ability to fly.

Finally there are other alternative examples that could have been used to show case different results like for instance me stating it could be more inline with someone being attached to a crane and lifting the car from ground with the help of the crane.

Philo just chooses to apply his logic unevenly or not think through multiple possibilities if it doesn't suit him lol

After all he has to show how smart he is and has to put down other people to do so.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Apologies. If only Newjak considered it so.

Don't be a dick.

Originally posted by Newjak
Well apparently we are on one when people want to apply science to Thor and his hammer while ignoring how flight would help Superman by being to exert more force to move things.

Correction Phil and you guys think he is. Phil is mostly just an educated j@ckass that acts smarter than he is and you guys happen to agree with him so you ignore it.

It makes it much easier to see someone as smart when you think they're presenting your side with great arguments that are fundamentally flawed or ignoring context. Like Philo's junkyard example.

For instance it assumes that Superman's flight only propels him him from behind when we don't know how it actually propels him. We also don't know if he can exert his ability to fly on certain parts of his limbs which would help re enforce them from the falling car.

All things we don't absolutely know but Philo makes assumptions about because he wants to put other people down.

Philo might be a prick at times, but to be fair, he's not wrong about how Superman is portrayed in the comics.

I wouldn't put it past a writer to come along and say "oh, superman's flight does aid in his strength", but the problem is the lack of feats to support it at this moment in time. you are right about us not knowing how his flight actually works, though.

What were you saying about Thor's hammer, though?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Don't be a dick.

Philo might be a prick at times, but to be fair, he's not wrong about how Superman is portrayed in the comics.

I wouldn't put it past a writer to come along and say "oh, superman's flight does aid in his strength", but the problem is the lack of feats to support it at this moment in time. you are right about us not knowing how his flight actually works, though.

What were you saying about Thor's hammer, though?

Also how this Forum tends to apply things like physics and logic only when scrutinizing other characters even though if we applied it to other characters it would produce wonky results lol.

I've stated multiple times I know Superman's strength feats aren't flying feats but just showing how the logical application of physics and meta knowledge can get you there.

Also Philo is a dick and jackass and always has been to me.

Originally posted by Newjak
Well apparently we are on one when people want to apply science to Thor and his hammer while ignoring how flight would help Superman by being to exert more force to move things.

Correction Phil and you guys think he is. Phil is mostly just an educated j@ckass that acts smarter than he is and you guys happen to agree with him so you ignore it.

It makes it much easier to see someone as smart when you think they're presenting your side with great arguments that are fundamentally flawed or ignoring context. Like Philo's junkyard example.

For instance it assumes that Superman's flight only propels him him from behind when we don't know how it actually propels him. We also don't know if he can exert his ability to fly on certain parts of his limbs which would help re enforce them from the falling car.

All things we don't absolutely know but Philo makes assumptions about because he wants to put other people down.

Random scene at the top of my head. Dargo is getting beaten down, gets mjolnir and oneshots his opponent.

No and I don't particularly care how Superman flies. Now if you have any scans, put up or shut up.

Originally posted by Newjak
That when people ignore Thor's striking feats just because he has his hammer they are effectively ignoring the writer's intent of showing Thor's power. Considering Thor gets written and portrayed most often hitting things with his hammer.

Also how this Forum tends to apply things like physics and logic only when scrutinizing other characters even though if we applied it to other characters it would produce wonky results lol.

I've stated multiple times I know Superman's strength feats aren't flying feats but just showing how the logical application of physics and meta knowledge can get you there.

Also Philo is a dick and jackass and always has been to me.

Can you be more specific about the hammer stuff please? What are people saying? That Mjolnir accounts for all of his strength or something?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Its not science, it's outright shown in the comics.

Random scene at the top of my head. Dargo is getting beaten down, gets mjolnir and oneshots his opponent.

No and I don't particularly care how Superman flies. Now if you have any scans, put up or shut up.

Also the other Thor seemed more concerned about the time limit then he was Drago being defeated lol.

But would you say that feat was also showing how strong Thor can hit with his hammer?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Can you be more specific about the hammer stuff please? What are people saying? That Mjolnir accounts for all of his strength or something?

even a normal human can strike a surface with FAR more force using a hammer, then we can with a physical punch.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Can you be more specific about the hammer stuff please? What are people saying? That Mjolnir accounts for all of his strength or something?

Basically that you can't use feats of Thor's striking to show his strength because the hammer helps him. And since we don't know how much the hammer helps you need to show feats of him without hammer and we take that as the baseline.

Which considering like that's 90% of Thor's power feats this always seemed awfully convenient to me. Also that it should be easy to understand that writer's do this to show Thor's power not the power of the hammer. Just like when writer's write Superman lifting things it's to show Superman's strength not the extent of his flying power. Even though we know he could use flight to help him.