Originally posted by DarkSaint85How do you know he DOESN'T use the flight to help? lol
Superman COULD (according to Byrne) use his flight to help his strength,but he DOESN'T.Thor COULD (according to many writers) use Mjolnir to help his strength, and he DOES.
That's the difference, and where the analogy breaks down.
We also just accept that Mjolnir helps Thor with his strength attacks because we apply real world physics to this part. When in reality we don't know how much the writers think it helps him.
Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
the argument is that a strike from mjolnir is more powerful than a physical punch from thor, which makes complete sense.even a normal human can strike a surface with FAR more force using a hammer, then we can with a physical punch.
Well, yes, that's true. But I wasn't sure that was what was being argued, hence my question.
Originally posted by Newjak
I'm surprised you haven't seen these arguments more. They were around well before I left as well.Basically that you can't use feats of Thor's striking to show his strength because the hammer helps him. And since we don't know how much the hammer helps you need to show feats of him without hammer and we take that as the baseline.
Which considering like that's 90% of Thor's power feats this always seemed awfully convenient to me. Also that it should be easy to understand that writer's do this to show Thor's power not the power of the hammer. Just like when writer's write Superman lifting things it's to show Superman's strength not the extent of his flying power. Even though we know he could use flight to help him.
While I'm of the belief that Thor is very, very strong even without his hammer, how are we supposed to measure his strength when he's swinging said hammer? Other than using vague "he strong as ****" kinds of comments?
Originally posted by Newjak
How do you know he DOESN'T use the flight to help? lolWe also just accept that Mjolnir helps Thor with his strength attacks because we apply real world physics to this part. When in reality we don't know how much the writers think it helps him.
To be fair, not enough actual thought has been put in to Superman's flight by most of the people that have written him. I remember back in the day talking about it, and using the example of pushing a pallet truck. If flight is a "muscle" like any other, then yes, it would make sense that he's using all his muscles to help his strength.
The problem, is that it's not provable, and almost everything Byrne wrote has been largely done away with.
Originally posted by Newjak
I mean if you want to get technica,l which I know people on this forum do, Drago never actually punches his opponent so we don't if he could have just punched him.Also the other Thor seemed more concerned about the time limit then he was Drago being defeated lol.
But would you say that feat was also showing how strong Thor can hit with his hammer?
Thor beats the crap out of Hulk with mjolnir.
Hulk beats the crap out of Thor without mjolnir.
https://i.postimg.cc/L6HQKk2c/RCO014.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/xTtx0kdc/RCO015.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/g27gZf8p/RCO016.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/nLQ0Y0GD/RCO017.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/4dkw8VWF/RCO018.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/7639jhcP/RCO019.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/zvq7N5ZC/RCO020.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/RhGRV84j/RCO021.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/PfMK4LY2/RCO022.jpg
Hulk outright stops when mjolnir returns to Thor.
Originally posted by Newjak
How do you know he DOESN'T use the flight to help? lolWe also just accept that Mjolnir helps Thor with his strength attacks because we apply real world physics to this part. When in reality we don't know how much the writers think it helps him.
Because we haven't ever had it shown that he does (apart from Byrne, and even then it was only semi related to your hypothesis.
We don't JUST apply real world physics,though. We also apply comic feats.
And BINGO! We don't know how much writers think it helps him - but weDO know that writers think it does. Hence the separation. You call it convenient ,but it is what it is.
However,do we know that writers think Superman's flight aids his lifting?
Originally posted by -Pr-I would say you don't need to use it to come to a definite decision on his strength but it gives us enough of a baseline to understand what tier of strength he falls in.
Well, yes, that's true. But I wasn't sure that was what was being argued, hence my question.While I'm of the belief that Thor is very, very strong even without his hammer, how are we supposed to measure his strength when he's swinging said hammer? Other than using vague "he strong as ****" kinds of comments?
To be fair, not enough actual thought has been put in to Superman's flight by most of the people that have written him. I remember back in the day talking about it, and using the example of pushing a pallet truck. If flight is a "muscle" like any other, then yes, it would make sense that he's using all his muscles to help his strength.
The problem, is that it's not provable, and almost everything Byrne wrote has been largely done away with.
Which I think is more than reasonable.
And once again it's just analogy that I know isn't true but you can still arrive to it in the same logical way people use to downplay Thor's striking feats and try and get them tossed out.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85We know at least one did lol.
Because we haven't ever had it shown that he does (apart from Byrne, and even then it was only semi related to your hypothesis.We don't JUST apply real world physics,though. We also apply comic feats.
And BINGO! We don't know how much writers think it helps him - but weDO know that writers think it does. Hence the separation. You call it convenient ,but it is what it is.
However,do we know that writers think Superman's flight aids his lifting?
We don't truly know what other writers think
Originally posted by Newjak
We know at least one did lol.We don't truly know what other writers think
Which ,as Pr says, has been largely done away with. And even then, it was only semi related to what your argument is.
Well then we go by what's been shown. And we have been shown Thor's strikes augmented by X% by Mjolnir - the exact percentage is of course unknown. But the main point is, it is augmented.
Do we have something similar for Superman in the last 20 years? That he uses his flight to augment his strength?
punch a brick wall as hard as you can a dozen times with your fists. then hit the same wall a dozen times with a sledge hammer.
even your average meth head construction worker could tell you that the hammer will cause WAY more damage to the wall than your fists ever could. hence why comic book writers consistently show thor's hammer strikes being far more potent than his physical blows.
how is this even an argument?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Which ,as Pr says, has been largely done away with. And even then, it was only semi related to what your argument is.Well then we go by what's been shown. And we have been shown Thor's strikes augmented by X% by Mjolnir - the exact percentage is of course unknown. But the main point is, it is augmented.
Do we have something similar for Superman in the last 20 years? That he uses his flight to augment his strength?
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Like what lifting? Pushing? Pulling? Flying charge or punch? Obviously when he's performing those things when flying, his flight strength contributes greatly. You can add durability to that. That's common sense. Out of all those acts, lifting while flying is probably the muddiest. For example if one is flying fast enough, you can technically use a majority of flight strength as opposed to muscle power as long as you're bracing and balancing the object well enough.
This goes the same for any brick who can fly.
Then post scans of him aiding his strength with his flight. Bracing IS strength, otherwise Barry and Wally (who can run as fast as Superman can fly, and even faster) are capable of pushing/pulling the same weight as Supes.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Ok, how about this?Thor beats the crap out of Hulk with mjolnir.
Hulk beats the crap out of Thor without mjolnir.
https://i.postimg.cc/L6HQKk2c/RCO014.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/xTtx0kdc/RCO015.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/g27gZf8p/RCO016.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/nLQ0Y0GD/RCO017.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/4dkw8VWF/RCO018.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/7639jhcP/RCO019.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/zvq7N5ZC/RCO020.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/RhGRV84j/RCO021.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/PfMK4LY2/RCO022.jpgHulk outright stops when mjolnir returns to Thor.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Then post scans of him aiding his strength with his flight. Bracing IS strength, otherwise Barry and Wally (who can run as fast as Superman can fly, and even faster) are capable of pushing/pulling the same weight as Supes.
Here he wasn't strong enough to break free of Rao's shackles, so he flew the whole thing(ship) away. Flight strength.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Ok, how about this?Thor beats the crap out of Hulk with mjolnir.
Hulk beats the crap out of Thor without mjolnir.
https://i.postimg.cc/L6HQKk2c/RCO014.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/xTtx0kdc/RCO015.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/g27gZf8p/RCO016.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/nLQ0Y0GD/RCO017.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/4dkw8VWF/RCO018.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/7639jhcP/RCO019.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/zvq7N5ZC/RCO020.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/RhGRV84j/RCO021.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/PfMK4LY2/RCO022.jpgHulk outright stops when mjolnir returns to Thor.
Why on Earth would you use The Hulk of all people as an example?
Originally posted by Newjak
I would say you don't need to use it to come to a definite decision on his strength but it gives us enough of a baseline to understand what tier of strength he falls in.Which I think is more than reasonable.
And once again it's just analogy that I know isn't true but you can still arrive to it in the same logical way people use to downplay Thor's striking feats and try and get them tossed out.
Poor Thor. I wonder when Marvel will give him a break.
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
They should be technically, but that's not their thing.
And then sometimes we have showings like Flash or other speedsters throwing objects that have the same impact as if super strong bricks were throwing them. 😬Here he wasn't strong enough to break free of Rao's shackles, so he flew the whole thing(ship) away. Flight strength.
