Originally posted by Galan007
Assuming the stronger character has the means to destroy a planet(in the form of a powerful ki blast), then yes, that's typically how it works. DB revolves around logical power-scaling.But like, if you gave Yajirobe a PL of 1,000,000 and then told him to go destroy the earth, he still couldn't do it because the guy has never used a ki blast in his entire history.
Where would that power level go to then? If he is at a million but can't destroy a planet, what happens to the power?
Originally posted by carver9I think what Galan is saying is that without the ability to actually use the ki power you can be at huge power levels and not be able to do anything with it.
Where would that power level go to then? If he is at a million but can't destroy a planet, what happens to the power?
Think of it like a million gallon tank of water. It's not going to put out a huge fire by itself you have to have a hose to be able to use the water. Without a way to release the ki it's just there doing nothing.
At least that's what I took out of it. If I am wrong I'm sure Galan will correct me.
Originally posted by carver9Physical applications, most likely.
Where would that power level go to then? If he is at a million but can't destroy a planet, what happens to the power?
So I would still assume, for example, that a theoretical "PL=1,000,000" Yajirobe would be able to no-sell 1st form Freeza's planet-buster and stomp him in a fight. It's just that Yaj himself can't project ki blasts...So even though he has enough power at his disposal *to* one-shot planets, he lacks the ability to actually do so.
Don't care about other pages but on the speed angle of the first page, if you make a jump to the low millions you have Final Form Frieza firing a blast that a Piccolo who was above a million couldn't even see even though he could react to other lesser attacks from a less powerful Frieza. Vegeta who could track it then couldn't track Frieza's physical movements very well at all. SS Goku was then wildly above everything 50 percent Frieza could do.
Basically everything increases with power and it leads to some interesting conclusions.
That being said, I always had the herald tier with average feats (not counting extreme highs) as somewhere around Frieza level. Casual-ish planet destroying being the tie to 1st form Frieza with the 10x gravity planet. Most high feats countered by "SCALING" and the like. And then you just move up sagas to account for outliers, but it would work for the average levels. This also ignores the street level and meta stuff since you might as well just move down sagas for that and it creates a mess where you can simultaneously argue 1st Form Frieza is a good fight under one light but also Nappa stomps.
I know Vegeta had to power to destroy Earth too, but I'm being pretty fair and intentioned with it.
Once it gets to Buu saga, the scaling should be so retarded that it's kind of pointless for me to even think about. It pretty much becomes the ideal of the comic character only written under one writer as his actual real level to fight these characters. That same guy who fought Thing was actually universal, no amps haha.
Not too far removed from normal debating actually, but it seems so much more focused to me on highs when it's Dragon Ball. Meh.
As an aside for the striking vs weight angle, consider that a weaker version of katchin was durable enough to destroy the Z-Sword without a scratch. The characters are now strong enough to casually destroy upgraded katchin which is much thicker with normal strikes. Unless something completely unbreakable and really heavy is thrown on them, they're probably punching through it. Hell Frieza casually boots away Vegeta's attack that had enough power to destroy Namek. Might not be able to lift everything, but they can sure punch the shit out of it. I mean Thor guaranteed has better lifting feats than Goku, and Goku would make him look like a toddler fighting Jeffrey Dahmer in a physical battle.
Originally posted by carver940 tons on that planet is like 10 tons on earth?
On a planet with extreme gravity.That's the lowest of lowest showings and Kid Goku would stomp Thor by the way. Hell, Jackie Chun could.
Originally posted by Newjak
I think what Galan is saying is that without the ability to actually use the ki power you can be at huge power levels and not be able to do anything with it.Think of it like a million gallon tank of water. It's not going to put out a huge fire by itself you have to have a hose to be able to use the water. Without a way to release the ki it's just there doing nothing.
At least that's what I took out of it. If I am wrong I'm sure Galan will correct me.
Gotcha.
Originally posted by Galan007
Physical applications, most likely.So I would still assume, for example, that a theoretical "PL=1,000,000" Yajirobe would be able to no-sell 1st form Freeza's planet-buster and stomp him in a fight. It's just that Yaj himself can't project ki blasts...So even though he has enough power at his disposal *to* one-shot planets, he lacks the ability to actually do so.
So he would be a physical beast. This makes sense.
Yeah...
the power scaling there is a bit crazy.
Let's start with base cumber matching KK Vegito:
Then Golden Ape Cumber one-piecing him.
Originally posted by Galan007
Assuming the stronger character has the means to destroy a planet(in the form of a powerful ki blast), then yes, that's typically how it works. DB revolves around logical power-scaling.But like, if you gave Yajirobe a PL of 1,000,000 and then told him to go destroy the earth, he still couldn't do it because the guy has never used a ki blast in his entire history.
Not so logical.
It's honestly as nonsensical as The Seven Deadly Sins. That's the series where Escanor is Demon King level, yet the angel who gave him his powers is not. Inexplicably.
In Z, this is most obvious by the fact the "moves so fast I can't see them" stops being a thing, until it is. Roshie being one obvious example, dodging a massively suppressex Jiren who was still SSJ Blue Plus level, and logically should have been MUCH faster then Roshie.
Like Abridged Vegeta said, power levels are bullshit.
Originally posted by carver9
Jiren was holding back tremendously and Roshi have been in training for years. This was said on panel. His training showed during that instance. What else do you have?
I already said Jiren was holding back.
Jiren also took down Super Saiyan Blue Goku, before Roshie dodged his punches.
This means Roshie did something against Jiren >>> SSJ Blue Goku.
Originally posted by cdtm
I already said Jiren was holding back.Jiren also took down Super Saiyan Blue Goku, [b]before Roshie dodged his punches.
This means Roshie did something against Jiren >>> SSJ Blue Goku. [/B]
To be fair, if Jiren killed him, he'd be eliminated. So he had to suppress himself even farther without a doubt.
Originally posted by cdtm
I already said Jiren was holding back.Jiren also took down Super Saiyan Blue Goku, [b]before Roshie dodged his punches.
This means Roshie did something against Jiren >>> SSJ Blue Goku. [/B]
So Jiren knowing Roshi is a trillion times weaker than him should have went all out and killed Roshi and lost the tournament? Good thinking cdtm.
Originally posted by Damborgson
To be fair, if Jiren killed him, he'd be eliminated. So he had to suppress himself even farther without a doubt.
Sure, but that never stopped him from crushing everyone else. 🙂
Kind of a convenient stretch of logic to just assume he suppressed himself so much, he had a PL of 400.
It also makes Master Roshie's feat a non feat. Nothing impressive at all about dodging him then.
But judging by Whis and Beerus's reactions, he really was meant to dodge punches from a being that crushed Goku, and not just someone who scalded it back a bit too far.