Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, in BoG a massively suppressed Beerus and n00b-SSG Goku threatened to destroy the entirety of U7 twice(once with their physical strikes colliding, and again when their blasts created the Super Dense Energy Ball.)By the ToP, that level of power was absolutely nothing.
Pretty much.
Originally posted by Galan007Yeah, in BoG a massively suppressed Beerus and n00b-SSG Goku threatened to destroy the entirety of U7 twice(once with their physical strikes colliding, and again when their blasts created the Super Dense Energy Ball.)
By the ToP, that level of power was absolutely nothing.
Oh, you mean with the waves, which get stronger the further they travel away from their source? That's not how waves work, but for the sake of the argument, let's say the DB writers are dumb and that's how their waves work... Why would Gladiator care, if he is at the center of those waves, where they pretty much don't do shit?
Gladiator punches a hole through Gokus chest. The same way Gladiator destroys planets sturdy enough to withstand the death of galaxies.
What happens when Thor smites with Mjolnir? Planets and nearby moons shatter. What happens when Goku punches? Few tsunamis I guess? And an earthquake? Impressive indeed, but that's where it ends.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Sentry Vs Broly
My favorite comic book character VS my favorite anime character!
Sentry LITERALLY one-shots Broly.
Originally posted by Enzeru
Oh, you mean with the waves, which get stronger the further they travel away from their source? That's not how waves work, but for the sake of the argument, let's say the DB writers are dumb and that's how their waves work... Why would Gladiator care, if he is at the center of those waves, where they pretty much don't do shit?Gladiator punches a hole through Gokus chest. The same way Gladiator destroys planets sturdy enough to withstand the death of galaxies.
What happens when Thor smites with Mjolnir? Planets and nearby moons shatter. What happens when Goku punches? Few tsunamis I guess? And an earthquake? Impressive indeed, but that's where it ends.My favorite comic book character VS my favorite anime character!
Sentry LITERALLY one-shots Broly.
I am not going to pretend to know DBZ characters as well as most of you lot - but IYO, which DC herald could fight Broly/Goku? No haxx (so no WW with her lasso, or Flash with a speedsteal, or MMH with a mindwipe), just good old-fashioned fighting?
I ask for DC, because you aren't exactly famed for your....love for DC. So were you to mention your hated competition as victors, I am more inclined to believe that.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85I am not going to pretend to know DBZ characters as well as most of you lot - but IYO, which [b]DC herald could fight Broly/Goku? No haxx (so no WW with her lasso, or Flash with a speedsteal, or MMH with a mindwipe), just good old-fashioned fighting?
I ask for DC, because you aren't exactly famed for your....love for DC. So were you to mention your hated competition as victors, I am more inclined to believe that. [/B]
I will now tell you how I always have and always will perceive Dragonball characters:
To me they are more energy manipulators than they are durable physical power houses. They have a high energy output and at the same time they have a high resistance to energy based attacks. Energy, KI, whatever – you get the point.
There is a scene, where adult Goku is completely overwhelmed by the weight of 40 tons. He has to go super saiyan to handle that weight. He handles it well at that point, but 40 tons still isn't really that much. Yeah, he gets stronger from that point on, but it's not like now he can easily lift 400 tons in his base form. And I don't think that 40-400 tons is something any high herald would struggle with.
There is also another scene, where super saiyan Vegeta gets hit by 1000 tons and he is visibly hurt and uncomfortable. Can't take many more of those. 1000 tons being too much for high heralds... I'm not seeing it. We've seen what Savage Hulk was able to handle in older comics with the mountain. Do I think that a super saiyan would be able to handle that? Hell no. Can a super saiyan god handle that weight? I still don't think so, because to me the jumps in physical power of saiyans and other Dragonball characters on that level... are just not that big.
And when it comes to high heralds and strength, I personally do think that strength carries over to striking ability and durability. When I envision a fight between Goku (in any form) and a high herald from DC... be it Shazam, Black Adam, Wonder Woman etc., I just don't see Goku being able to dish out the physical damage needed to actually affect someone like... let's say Wonder Woman.
Do I think that a punch strong enough to destroy a planet would be enough to insta-kill Wonder Woman? No, I don't think so. I do think that she would be hurt... maybe even badly, because planetary power is nothing to laugh at. But in such a fight that doesn't even matter, because no version of Goku has the physical capabilities of dishing out planetary destruction. He just hasn't. There isn't a single moment in Dragonball mangas and the animes, which suggest that even the strongest saiyan can destroy a planet with a punch.
So they have to rely on their energy output, which is a whole another story. And that's where Dragonball power scaling comes into play and things get messy. The argument is, that because Muten Roshi was able to destroy a moon... and he is super weak, every other Dragonball character has to be infinitely stronger and has to be able to destroy the entire universe with a single energy attack. But that's not what we ever see. Every time it actually matters, their energy output is pretty much on the same level.
Goku ripping Cell in half with his Kamehameha? He needed to power up for multiple seconds for that. And it was said that the beam would destroy Earth. Okay, cool. Cell blowing up Earth? That was his self-destruct mode and he had to power up for a whole minute. Why not just casually destroy the Earth with an energy beam? Because he can't. Goku teleported Cell away and got killed by that planetary level explosion, since it also destroyed King Kais planetoid. Everything else in heaven remained in tact from what I can remember.
Frieza wanting to destroy Earth? He had to shoot an energy ball at the center of the Earth to destabilize it and destroy it that way? Why not casually bust the planet?
What about my boi Broly? Why didn't he casually destroy the planet, when it looked as if he was losing during the second movie? Speaking of Broly, why does Super Saiyan Broly need to protect himself from lava with a force field? Because his durability is not high enough to withstand it.
I don't pay attention to space cheese. Like Beerus tapping a desk and destroying half a planet. That's non-sense magic or whatever. No one doubts that Dragonball has mystical magic as well. If that's the argument, then sure, why not. But in a fight? Hell no.
Do I think that DC characters get blasted into oblivion by energy based attacks from Dragonball characters? No, I don't. Why would I? What have Dragonball characters ever done to justify power beyond the planetary? Nothing. These arguments are always made based on statements and power scaling. And the one instance is the universal energy wave stuff, which is not logical in the first place – but even if it is, it doesn't matter at the very center of the fight, where high heralds are perfectly safe.
So in my mind any DC high herald beats any Dragonball character, who has to rely on their own power. And that includes Broly. I like Broly more than any DC high herald (even Black Adam, whom I like), but that's not going to make me vote for him out of bias. Why would I lie to myself?
Fights, where I can see Dragonball characters winning... are fights against the Green Lanterns, where it wouldn't be as physical. So it would be energy output against energy output. As soon as it gets physical... PHYSICAL, LET'S GET PHYSICAL, PHYSICAL! ... Dragonball characters lose. That's what we also see in Dragonball as well. During hand to hand combat they take damage so much faster than when they attack each other with energy attacks.
Originally posted by Enzeru
Oh, you mean with the waves, which get stronger the further they travel away from their source? That's not how waves work, but for the sake of the argument, let's say the DB writers are dumb and that's how their waves work... Why would Gladiator care, if he is at the center of those waves, where they pretty much don't do shit?Gladiator punches a hole through Gokus chest. The same way Gladiator destroys planets sturdy enough to withstand the death of galaxies.
What happens when Thor smites with Mjolnir? Planets and nearby moons shatter. What happens when Goku punches? Few tsunamis I guess? And an earthquake? Impressive indeed, but that's where it ends.My favorite comic book character VS my favorite anime character!
Sentry LITERALLY one-shots Broly.
Doesn't happen like that in the manga.
Otoh, nothing really gets destroyed either, so that could be hyperbole.
Originally posted by cdtmDoesn't happen like that in the manga.
Otoh, nothing really gets destroyed either, so that could be hyperbole.
[So nothing got destroyed here, troll?
/bW2c3_PyW3Q
Was that non functional video a clip from the anime?
As opposed to the manga I was specifically referencing.
But thank you for providing an example to others about the "waves get stronger as they go from their point of origin" logic.
If they keep traveling, do they eventually become Zeno level wipeout waves? Will Zeno just be sitting on his throne playing cosmic chess, and the head angel comes in and yells "WE MUST FLEE LORD! Nothing can stop them, they've TRAVELLED TOO FAR!"
Originally posted by cdtm
Was that non functional video a clip from the anime?As opposed to the [b]manga
I was specifically referencing.But thank you for providing an example to others about the "waves get stronger as they go from their point of origin" logic.
If they keep traveling, do they eventually become Zeno level wipeout waves? Will Zeno just be sitting on his throne playing cosmic chess, and the head angel comes in and yells "WE MUST FLEE LORD! Nothing can stop them, they've TRAVELLED TOO FAR!" [/B]
Its canon and was Beerus and Goku attack threatening the universe, yes or no?
Originally posted by Enzeru
I will now tell you how I always have and always will perceive Dragonball characters:To me they are more energy manipulators than they are durable physical power houses. They have a high energy output and at the same time they have a high resistance to energy based attacks. Energy, KI, whatever – you get the point.
There is a scene, where adult Goku is completely overwhelmed by the weight of 40 tons. He has to go super saiyan to handle that weight. He handles it well at that point, but 40 tons still isn't really that much. Yeah, he gets stronger from that point on, but it's not like now he can easily lift 400 tons in his base form. And I don't think that 40-400 tons is something any high herald would struggle with.
There is also another scene, where super saiyan Vegeta gets hit by 1000 tons and he is visibly hurt and uncomfortable. Can't take many more of those. 1000 tons being too much for high heralds... I'm not seeing it. We've seen what Savage Hulk was able to handle in older comics with the mountain. Do I think that a super saiyan would be able to handle that? Hell no. Can a super saiyan god handle that weight? I still don't think so, because to me the jumps in physical power of saiyans and other Dragonball characters on that level... are just not that big.
And when it comes to high heralds and strength, I personally do think that strength carries over to striking ability and durability. When I envision a fight between Goku (in any form) and a high herald from DC... be it Shazam, Black Adam, Wonder Woman etc., I just don't see Goku being able to dish out the physical damage needed to actually affect someone like... let's say Wonder Woman.
Do I think that a punch strong enough to destroy a planet would be enough to insta-kill Wonder Woman? No, I don't think so. I do think that she would be hurt... maybe even badly, because planetary power is nothing to laugh at. But in such a fight that doesn't even matter, because no version of Goku has the physical capabilities of dishing out planetary destruction. He just hasn't. There isn't a single moment in Dragonball mangas and the animes, which suggest that even the strongest saiyan can destroy a planet with a punch.So they have to rely on their energy output, which is a whole another story. And that's where Dragonball power scaling comes into play and things get messy. The argument is, that because Muten Roshi was able to destroy a moon... and he is super weak, every other Dragonball character has to be infinitely stronger and has to be able to destroy the entire universe with a single energy attack. But that's not what we ever see. Every time it actually matters, their energy output is pretty much on the same level.
Goku ripping Cell in half with his Kamehameha? He needed to power up for multiple seconds for that. And it was said that the beam would destroy Earth. Okay, cool. Cell blowing up Earth? That was his self-destruct mode and he had to power up for a whole minute. Why not just casually destroy the Earth with an energy beam? Because he can't. Goku teleported Cell away and got killed by that planetary level explosion, since it also destroyed King Kais planetoid. Everything else in heaven remained in tact from what I can remember.
Frieza wanting to destroy Earth? He had to shoot an energy ball at the center of the Earth to destabilize it and destroy it that way? Why not casually bust the planet?
What about my boi Broly? Why didn't he casually destroy the planet, when it looked as if he was losing during the second movie? Speaking of Broly, why does Super Saiyan Broly need to protect himself from lava with a force field? Because his durability is not high enough to withstand it.I don't pay attention to space cheese. Like Beerus tapping a desk and destroying half a planet. That's non-sense magic or whatever. No one doubts that Dragonball has mystical magic as well. If that's the argument, then sure, why not. But in a fight? Hell no.
Do I think that DC characters get blasted into oblivion by energy based attacks from Dragonball characters? No, I don't. Why would I? What have Dragonball characters ever done to justify power beyond the planetary? Nothing. These arguments are always made based on statements and power scaling. And the one instance is the universal energy wave stuff, which is not logical in the first place – but even if it is, it doesn't matter at the very center of the fight, where high heralds are perfectly safe.
So in my mind any DC high herald beats any Dragonball character, who has to rely on their own power. And that includes Broly. I like Broly more than any DC high herald (even Black Adam, whom I like), but that's not going to make me vote for him out of bias. Why would I lie to myself?
Fights, where I can see Dragonball characters winning... are fights against the Green Lanterns, where it wouldn't be as physical. So it would be energy output against energy output. As soon as it gets physical... PHYSICAL, LET'S GET PHYSICAL, PHYSICAL! ... Dragonball characters lose. That's what we also see in Dragonball as well. During hand to hand combat they take damage so much faster than when they attack each other with energy attacks.
DB is a energy base fighting show, Its how they scale. If one can destroy and his enemy surpasses THAT level
Originally posted by cdtm
Still anime though. Manga, you just get a one off statement about the shockwaves reaching the Kaio world, and a vague statement about "At this rate, they'll kill us all!"Not even the first time energy reached them, it happened when Goku went SSJ3.
Its canon and its usable. Goku and Beerus shuffle was destroying planets and stars and it was a threat to the Universe. Accept it and move on.
Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvilWhy does it Soley have to be "physical" though?🤔I Bet Goku has to exert Less Energy then Sentry or ANY other powerhouse to Destroy a World
Because neither Goku nor Vegeta will be able to fire a planetbusting Kamehameha at Gladiator / Wonder Woman / Hyperion / Shazam, before they get their faces smashed in. It takes them too long to charge those attacks.
Because neither Gladiator, nor Wonder Woman, nor Hyperion, nor Shazam will die from a planetary explosion. Hyperion has survived the explosion of two universes. Thor has survived being at the center of planets being shattered and blowing up. And because once a planet is gone Goku / Vegeta and a good chunk of other Dragonball characters die in deep space.
Imagine Gladiator or Hyperion grabbing Goku from behind and starting to squeeze. Do you honestly believe that Goku would ever be able to free himself? If you do, then you really haven't read Dragonball at all. Vegeta failed to lift a 1000 ton heavy robot. Got smacked in the head and then ran away crying. Beerus also said that he wouldn't be able to lift the robot.
Gladiator / Hyperion grabs Goku / Vegeta once and shatters his bones effortlessly. That's not even debatable. And Gokus and Vegetas only way of winning is powering up enough energy to kill the high heralds... even though someone like Hyperion survived much more damage. And then Goku and Vegeta also need to pray to Zeno that they don't die in deep open space, once the planet is gone.
The only argument a Dragonball fanboy has is: "HURRR DURRR, WITH A POWER LEVEL OF 96 MUTEN ROSHI DESTROYED A MOON AND GOKU HAD A POWER LEVEL OF 1207 SHORTY AFTER. 1207 x 20 DUE TO HIS KAIOKEN IS LIKE 24140 AND THEN ALSO x 50 FROM THE SUPER SAIYAN FORM IS LIKE 1207000. AND THEN SUPER SAIYAN 3 IS LIKE x400, SO THAT'S LIKE A POWER LEVEL OF 482800000 AND WITH SUPER SAIYAN 4 SUPER SAIYAN GOLD SUPER SAIYAN GOD SUPER SAIYAN 2.5 GOD SUPER SAIYAN BEING LIKE OVER 9000000000. So as you can see Goku easily kills Galactus."
Get the **** out of here.