Originally posted by Astner
Perpetua was a ****ing joke. Beyonder takes out all three of them.
you should check out this interviewer youtube channel too, you would love it
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Originally posted by MrMind
snyder explained in this video perpetua was not at full power for her low showing, context matters.you should check out this interviewer youtube channel too, you would love it
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The interview is an example of this as well because it's clear that he's attempting to push for a concession for certain ideas that Snyder clearly hasn't thought about.
And the faux mathematics of "infinite choices" is a clear case of hyperbole. Because you can't generate infinity from finite elements (that's why the axiom of infinity is an axiom and not a theory), to clarify: you have a finite number of entities capable of making choices in the 52 universes, and they have a finite amount of choices every second over a finite amount of time. While this will generate a large number this number will have the distinct property of being finite. And it's fairly easy to draw a hard-cap on that number because there are studies that examine probability permutations (which are a lot more multiplex than choice, significantly so to more than compensate that the Dark Multiverse spawns from the 52 universes as opposed to one). If you're interested here's an article addressing it.
I don't mind people using the term infinity as hyperbole. As long as it's clearly defined then it can always be addressed. The issue is when Tyler brings up greater transfinite values, which is not at all applicable.
There's also the issue with dimensions that was pure cringe to watch, but I'll save that critique for a rainy day.
That said, if Snyder said that Preptua was weakened then that's a fair argument, but I'm not going to change sides until she actually gets feats that are comparable to the Beyonder's. Because not only did the Beyonder destroy the Multiverse in his fight against the Molecule Man, which was actually infinite. When it comes to dimensions and whatnot, he wasn't a six-dimensional being, he was an infinite-dimensional being.
I forget exactly where this panel is from, but it's from one of the earlier Secret Wars II issues, I think it's #2 but don't quote me on that.
Originally posted by krisblaze
Seriously though, Mr.Mind meant pre retcon, didn't he?
Originally posted by krisblaze
DK and Perpetua don't have the feats to beat pre retcon MM and Beyonder.
Because let's be honest, Mr. Mxyzptlk feat in World's Funnest still has the greatest feat in either Marvel or DC. The issue is that it's questionable whether or not World's Funnest is actually canon (regardless of Hyper-time) and if it is we'd have to assume that either he killed Perpetua at that point or that his explanation of the state of affairs after he supposedly destroyed everything except for Bat-mite and Jay's helm. And that's when the DC multiverse was truly infinite.
Originally posted by krisblaze
I've always been suspicious of World's Funnest, mainly because the showings there absoltely balloon every other cosmic feat in DC.
I don't mind using World's Funnest, but the idea that it can be used inflate the power of characters that don't have feats anywhere close to what Mr. Mxyzptlk displayed has always seemed dishonest.
Originally posted by Astner
I know of the Imaginary Axis and I'm not a fan. What he does is what a lot of battleboard wankers do and put an extreme emphasis on statements over feats, while simultaneously cherry-picking which statements to use and which to ignore while spinning his narrative to turn a given cosmology into something more than it actually is.The interview is an example of this as well because it's clear that he's attempting to push for a concession for certain ideas that Snyder clearly hasn't thought about.
And the faux mathematics of "infinite choices" is a clear case of hyperbole. Because you can't generate infinity from finite elements (that's why the axiom of infinity is an axiom and not a theory), to clarify: you have a finite number of entities capable of making choices in the 52 universes, and they have a finite amount of choices every second over a finite amount of time. While this will generate a large number this number will have the distinct property of being finite. And it's fairly easy to draw a hard-cap on that number because there are studies that examine probability permutations (which are a lot more multiplex than choice, significantly so to more than compensate that the Dark Multiverse spawns from the 52 universes as opposed to one). If you're interested here's an article addressing it.
I don't mind people using the term infinity as hyperbole. As long as it's clearly defined then it can always be addressed. The issue is when Tyler brings up greater transfinite values, which is not at all applicable.
There's also the issue with dimensions that was pure cringe to watch, but I'll save that critique for a rainy day.
That said, if Snyder said that Preptua was weakened then that's a fair argument, but I'm not going to change sides until she actually gets feats that are comparable to the Beyonder's. Because not only did the Beyonder destroy the Multiverse in his fight against the Molecule Man, which was actually infinite. When it comes to dimensions and whatnot, he wasn't a six-dimensional being, he was an infinite-dimensional being.
I forget exactly where this panel is from, but it's from one of the earlier Secret Wars II issues, I think it's #2 but don't quote me on that.
I thought imaginary axis is cool, the episode on the endless and string theory was amazing
Snyder is retarded in that interview though, he kept mentioning 4th dimension like it’s the sphere of god and forgot 4th dimension is the monitor realm.
Perpetua has feats you just don’t pay attention to them
The 52 universes has long been debunked. Perpetua created a infinite multiverse with higher dimension when she first started. That was the pre-crisis multiverse in her hand
https://imgur.com/LSyXBLs
even current cosmology is inifinite timelines, and that’s ignore the higher realms
https://imgur.com/LY8VPbw
And she was said to be the most feared in the entire omniverse out of all her brothers and sisters.
I’m on the camp that thinks dc cosmology is infinitely bigger than marvel, check out my threads and look, evidences are all there
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/an-inside-look-on-dc-multiverse-2016641/
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/dc-cosmology-1903336/
Even lower realm like sphere of gods infinitely dwarfs the thirds dimension multiverse, like orion said mortal universes are insignificant bubbles
Not to mention sphere of gods is nowhere near the top dimension in dc
Where perpetua resided was the 6th dimension, a dimension where infinite multiverses born and die.
The fact that she tore a piece from overvoid monitor mind and shape it into her sons, is insane by itself. Overvoid represents the blank canvas comic books write on
https://imgur.com/a/zpTeQEV
Originally posted by Astner
Considering he actually think Perpetua would win it's reasonable to assume that he did.Not only don't they have it it's not even close. Maybe if you pulled out World's Funnest and tried to scale that to inflate Dr. Manhattan's power and Perpetua's power then you'd arrive at the conclusion that they'd win.
Because let's be honest, Mr. Mxyzptlk feat in World's Funnest still has the greatest feat in either Marvel or DC. The issue is that it's questionable whether or not World's Funnest is actually canon (regardless of Hyper-time) and if it is we'd have to assume that either he killed Perpetua at that point or that his explanation of the state of affairs after he supposedly destroyed everything except for Bat-mite and Jay's helm. And that's when the DC multiverse was truly infinite.
Originally posted by krisblaze
I've always been suspicious of World's Funnest, mainly because the showings there absoltely balloon every other cosmic feat in DC.
there is only one mxy across dc medium, so the word 'canon' doesn't affect mxy, i can't believe galan still didn't convince you guys after all these years
Originally posted by krisblaze
Seriously though, Mr.Mind meant pre retcon, didn't he?
Of course he did.
"PR" is always used for that, same with "PC" for Pre-Crisis, but I digress.
If one wanted to use post-retcon versions, there would be no need to specify, since we're always meant to use the current incarnations unless specified otherwise by the threadstarter.
Plus... there's this post:
Originally posted by MrMind
it's still pre retcon, I just messed up my scans order so I asked galan to delete it
Originally posted by MrMind
I thought imaginary axis is cool, the episode on the endless and string theory was amazing.
Originally posted by MrMind
Snyder is retarded in that interview though, he kept mentioning 4th dimension like it’s the sphere of god and forgot 4th dimension is the monitor realm.
He fumbles to explain the spatial dimensions confusing zero dimensional space (a dot) and one dimensional space (a line) for one dimensional space (a line) and two dimensional space (a plane), there's also the problem with describing three-dimensional space (volume) as "material stuff" but it's a bit more forgiving, and the fourth dimension is as per the metric tensor time.
Originally posted by MrMind
Perpetua has feats you just don’t pay attention to themThe 52 universes has long been debunked. Perpetua created a infinite multiverse with higher dimension when she first started. That was the pre-crisis multiverse in her hand
https://imgur.com/LSyXBLs
Originally posted by MrMind
even current cosmology is inifinite timelines, and that’s ignore the higher realms
https://imgur.com/LY8VPbw
In the Orrey of Worlds you have the 52 universes, numbered 0 to 51 and beyond that you have the spheres of the gods, the Speedforce, limbo, and eventually the Source Wall. That's the official explanation we've been given. It's not 100% coherent, but that's comics in general. However, we're still left with Morrison's map that specifically outlines 52 universes.
The Dark Multiverse is tied to the 52 universes. But since it's based off choice and happenstance (not to mention that they're unstable and collapse as frequently as they form) it's also finite.
With the Empty Hand arc we were introduced to different multiverses, but these supposedly existed beyond the Source Wall, i.e. beyond the DC multiverse, and while this may actually be infinite Perpetua didn't create that.
Originally posted by MrMind
And she was said to be the most feared in the entire omniverse out of all her brothers and sisters.
Originally posted by MrMind
I’m on the camp that thinks dc cosmology is infinitely bigger than marvel, check out my threads and look, evidences are all there
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/foru...iverse-2016641/
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/foru...mology-1903336/
And if you follow these models the comics will make even less sense.
Originally posted by MrMind
Not to mention sphere of gods is nowhere near the top dimension in dcWhere perpetua resided was the 6th dimension, a dimension where infinite multiverses born and die.
The fact that she tore a piece from overvoid monitor mind and shape it into her sons, is insane by itself. Overvoid represents the blank canvas comic books write on
https://imgur.com/a/zpTeQEV
Yes, it takes an infinite number of two dimensional planes (x, y, dz) to construct a three dimensional volume (x, y, z). That's what an integral is: an infinite sum of infinitesimal elements.
But even then you end up with a sixth dimensional Perpetua, and an infinite dimensional Beyonder.
I'm not putting too much emphasis on the dimensionality of these characters. I'd still argue that World's Funnest Mr. Mxyzptlk would beat the Pre-retcon Beyonder based on their actual feats despite the fact that he's a five-dimensional imp.
Originally posted by BrolyBlack
No youBeyonder and Molecule man were rectoned.
Originally posted by BrolyBlack
The title says PR, which means POST RECTON. You got it pet?
Originally posted by BrolyBlack
Why don’t they?PR or Post RECTON are the same now, it doesn’t matter what version you want to pick
Also I am prettier sure Galan has said that since the actual RECTON has taken place you can’t inflate their power based prior to RECTON.
Is there some sort of joke I'm missing or is he just spelling it wrong everytime unironically? That being said, hopefully all of Snyder's work goes the way of Post Rectum Beyonder where it belongs. I wonder what Johns felt when Snyder tried using Manhattan as a Dragon Ball device in his story? The work he spent years delaying.
As Moore rolled in his Vampire like grave.
Originally posted by MrMindTbf, Perpetua 'only' created the superstructure/framework of the multiverse. World Forger is who actually filled it with a [trans]infinitude of universes/timelines.
The 52 universes has long been debunked. Perpetua created a infinite multiverse with higher dimension when she first started. That was the pre-crisis multiverse in her hand
https://imgur.com/LSyXBLseven current cosmology is inifinite timelines, and that’s ignore the higher realms
https://imgur.com/LY8VPbw
Though the fact that Perpetua can casually whip up a being capable of doing something like that is also telling of her own power, imo.
Originally posted by AstnerYeah, dimensional scaling in Marvel and DC is completely different, so comparing the characters based on that alone doesn't really work.
But even then you end up with a sixth dimensional Perpetua, and an infinite dimensional Beyonder.I'm not putting too much emphasis on the dimensionality of these characters. I'd still argue that World's Funnest Mr. Mxyzptlk would beat the Pre-retcon Beyonder based on their actual feats despite the fact that he's a five-dimensional imp.
