Originally posted by Quincy
I'd have to imagine your sample size of Oklahoman (Oklahamoan? Okie-doken?) Proud Boys probably isn't a large enough sample size to lead anyone to feel that The Proud Boys in general are harmless. Tubby boys shoveling mesquite aside.
You'd be correct because I didn't mention Proud Boys, I specifically stated KKK who are definitely around in Oklahoma. Proud Boys...do not seem to be a thing around here that I know of. But there are Klanners around these parts. I only have to drive 30 minutes and I can find some KKK members. Tulsa is a very liberal city. A very large LGBT community presence, too. But you don't have to go far to be in Klanville areas.
The only time I've been scared or creeped out by these folks is a Nazi biker dude came into a 7-11. Had the SS tats and Nazi symbol tats. Gotta say, he gave me the creeps. I felt genuine fear from that dude in particular. It wasn't his tats. He was an evil person and my intuition picked up on that. You don't ignore those things.
Originally posted by Quincy
Just like, in broad terms, do you feel like The KKK is not a threat?
Not just in broad terms but in very specific terms they are not a threat as their organizational goals do not align with the concepts of "threat" as you and I are using it. At least not at the moment. Several decades ago, they were a threat.
Originally posted by Quincy
Like, to who? Do you think a black man would say the same thing?
A black man who knows the facts, yes, definitely. They exist. For example: Daryl Davis.
Originally posted by Quincy
This is a strange route and I'm not sure either one of us can be like "why worry about the KKK? They aren't...harming anyone?" Like you and I both know that to be harmful does not just mean physically hurting people.
But a statement like that is factually correct. They literally are not, at an organizational level, committing violence against anyone. This is the fundamental problem with equating the KKK to BLM and AntiFa: they are not the same.
Yes, they are all racists preaching toxic ideals. But BLM and AntiFa, at an organizational level (no matter how loose) are actually committing violence and murder.
Originally posted by Quincy
On the subject of beliefs, what are BLM beliefs? When I see someone wearing a "Black Lives Matter" shirt, what should I think they "REALLY" believe?
You would be well-served to assume that person is virtue signaling and knows very little of any facts at all about BLM as that is how most people are who are casual social justice warriors.
This is the fault of Social Media where everyone is in a hyper-virtue-signaling state at nearly all times, trying to out-woke each other. Even if that means they end up supporting racist and violent organizations in their crusade to out-virtue-signal their social media peers. It's sad. It's narcissistic. It's toxic. And we are seeing a MASSIVE spike in suicides and self-harm due to the toxicity of Social Media. Kill it/close it. Your life will get better.
Originally posted by Quincy
And I mean this in a genuine way. To me, it seems to be a message of positivity.
At it's core, it is fundamentally negative and the beliefs are opposed to credible criminal justice reform policies, childhood psychology, and community improvements. It is not a positive message. It is a message of hate and inappropriately calling a statistical anomaly "victimization" which are not positive elements to improve the black community.
Originally posted by Quincy
I don't know who (if there are any) leaders of BLM, not like the Grand Wizards or Gavin Mckinnis are leaders of their organizations. Does BLM have some sort of vetting process? So can we really say who is actually a member or not? Genuine question.
I am unable to speak to why you do or do not know people in any organizations. But the leaders for any of the organizations can be readily looked up on the internet including local chapter leaders. Maybe you know Gavin's name because of the fearmongering the leftist mainstream media did about Gavin because the MSM is ALSO trying their hardest to be woke SJWs (I'm in the same boat - don't know any of the names of any of the folks besides Gavin and that one dude from the UK)? That's definitely reason - we are all blasted in the face with the MSMs b.s., being spoon-fed our opinions and positions.
I try not to fall for it but you can even see me falling for the bullshit narratives on KMC. I do my best to research these things before falling for the traps but I'm not immune to disinformation. Biggest mistake I made was getting buttmad about Breonna Taylor's death and the reasons behind it. I was all about the "the black man was using his gun rights to defend his GF from home invaders and they were innocent, the police had no business being there" etc. But I was wrong about the fundamentals of the situation. That makes me mad. I wish I didn't fall for it but I'm still an emotional person who cares about people...I don't want violence or people to get hurt.
Originally posted by Quincy
The Proud Boys however, are open about their desire for violence. Mcinnis has stated he wants violence, he craves for it. The organization is opposed to feminism and believes that women should be subservient to men. They are also kind of dumb and all get a really lame looking ed hardy style tattoo, and tell each other not to jack off unless there's a woman nearby or some shit? I don't know they are ****ing weird.
Gavin is all over the place. He said violence doesn't feel good and then says in the same sentence he wants "punching in the face". When asked by the media to clarify, he said it was "Justified violence is protecting some woman who was getting beaten up." He's cutting it far too close to legal free speech, for my tastes. I have zero issues with his Male Chauvinistic beliefs, though. They readily admit to that. They call themselves that. It doesn't bother me even a tiny bit. It doesn't bother me when Indians talk express these same beliefs neither does it bother me when Muslims do. And there are Christians who express the same. I'm not offended by these things.
BUT! Codifying those beliefs into law is where I would draw the line. Women should get to choose to work or stay home. Women should get to choose to vote or not. They should not be forced to say home and their right to vote should be maintained. Maximum freedom, baby.
Originally posted by Quincy
I can't really argue with you over your belief that the organization of BLM and Antifa shouldn't exist in the first place. I imagine you must think the same thing of Proud Boys and KKK (of which I DO agree, those two organizations should definitely not exist)
Yeah, pretty much. In reality, while it appears I'm of the position x and you're of the position y, we really don't disagree. But the world would have us believe we are enemies and should fight. But it is simply not true. We agree like 95%. I'm just more liberal in my beliefs about what should be tolerated.
In an ideal world, we'd prop up black-activist charities that actually get young black men off the streets and into school; out of the system, and with diplomas; into long-term healthy marriages with direct involvement in raising their kids, and professional skills that translate to sustainable jobs. Organizations like that exist all over. Instead, we prop up toxic organizations like BLM that actually seek to destroy the points I just brought up (not kidding).
I put my money where my mouth is: I just donated to 100 Black Men in Tulsa. I just donated to a charity that helps cloth and feed children taken away from their criminal parents (parents just incarcerated). Since I don't have time to volunteer as much as I used to, all I have is my Native American and Jewish Privilege money to share.
Originally posted by Quincy
But I also won't ever write off something as large as this movement and assume it's all Virtue Signaling. Maybe for someone just putting up a tweet or blacking out their instagram feed, sure. But I know this affects people beyond the need to virtue signal. Man what a weird term. But hey, I believe in Social Justice so, big old shrug.
No no, you're right. Not ALL BLM activists are empty-virtue-signalers. Some walk the walk. And enough of them do that there is some positive change. But those people would be far better suited for legitimate black-support charities that actually help black people.
Originally posted by Quincy
Why do we have to equate one to the other. Can't they be separate questions? Can't Trump say "**** the proud boys, and **** antifa! **** violence!" but you know, in an edited way. None of this half measure shit. It's weak willed.
I agree with all of this. But I'm of the opinion of "be excellent to each other" so I'd shy away from negativity like that and instead call attention to orgs who are not mired in violence and controversy. Orgs that are literal boots on the ground charities that make a difference. They exist. Tons of them.
It took me a long ass time to reply because I typed some of this out throughout the late more and early afternoon. In and out of meetings and responding to e-mails.