Wonder Woman vs Maxima

Originally posted by h1a8
What are you talking about? Zoom was most likely moving far in excess of light speed (minimum near light speed). He was moving to create at least 3 independent after images (they were all doing different shit).

That implies that his perceptions were operating at light speed or better. He basically was operating at Metroman perceptions when WW lassoed him.

Downplay the feat all you want. It still is significantly greater than anything Maxima has done speed wise.

Dude Zoom doesn't have speed, he doesn't move physically at all. His connection to the normal time line is elastic and he can alter his comparative movement thru time.
https://m.imgur.com/5Eaeebo

When he is walking at a crawl he can still appear as multiple images. Fact is just to talk to a normal human he has to slow his comparative time line.

https://m.imgur.com/emghvMa

or as a shimmer When he is completely stationary.
https://m.imgur.com/qrvqoD6

Seeing multiple images of him doesn't mean he's moving fast. in his first appearance after the accident that gave him his powers he was appearing in multiple places and it stated on panel he wasn't moving. I'll hunt up the issue to show the scan s but there are a lot more images than you see in WW 214 and it stated he's stationary.

Wally has explained it as him snapping in and out of the time line.

Originally posted by beatboks
Dude Zoom doesn't have speed, he doesn't move physically at all. His connection to the normal time line is elastic and he can alter his comparative movement thru time.
https://m.imgur.com/5Eaeebo

When he is walking at a crawl he can still appear as multiple images. Fact is just to talk to a normal human he has to slow his comparative time line.

https://m.imgur.com/emghvMa

or as a shimmer When he is completely stationary.
https://m.imgur.com/qrvqoD6

Seeing multiple images of him doesn't mean he's moving fast. in his first appearance after the accident that gave him his powers he was appearing in multiple places and it stated on panel he wasn't moving. I'll hunt up the issue to show the scan s but there are a lot more images than you see in WW 214 and it stated he's stationary.

Wally has explained it as him snapping in and out of the time line.

Zoom is the very definition of Metroman. He literally slows down time where everything appears frozen or slowed down. .

In reference to WW he was moving at near light speed and had light speed perceptions at that particular time.

Seeing multiple images of him does mean he is moving fast (in relation to others). How else would be in those different locations without moving?
You are making no sense. Your arguments are getting silly now.

Originally posted by h1a8
I addressed that. That wasn't DD but a clone. You know it's trolling to ignore evidence right?

Originally posted by Stoic
Were there Doomsday clones in existence during the time of DoS?

Anyone? beatboks, can you answer this?

I didn't think there were any clones at that time.

beatboks, you're wasting your time on this guy. You can bring forth hundreds of citations worth of evidence, and h1 will attempt to refute them because he has serious ego issues. You posted Zooms powers and it still has yet to penetrate.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I didn't think there were any clones at that time.

Me neither.

Doomsday in WW 110-112 was a simulcrum created by a video game. H1 is right in a way.

Originally posted by h1a8
Zoom is the very definition of Metroman. He literally slows down time where everything appears frozen or slowed down. .

In reference to WW he was moving at near light speed and had light speed perceptions at that particular time.

Seeing multiple images of him does mean he is moving fast (in relation to others). How else would be in those different locations without moving?
You are making no sense. Your arguments are getting silly now.

She outright say she is being punched at the speed of light which is an indication of speed...

https://m.imgur.com/VeXeTno

Originally posted by h1a8
Zoom is the very definition of Metroman. He literally slows down time where everything appears frozen or slowed down. .

In reference to WW he was moving at near light speed and had light speed perceptions at that particular time.
Seeing multiple images of him does mean he is moving fast (in relation to others). How else would be in those different locations without moving?
You are making no sense. Your arguments are getting silly now.

Even when zoom is moving at slow speed he is in multiple locations his link to time is tenuous and elastic he pops in and out of time the fact is he was holding a conversation with Wonder Woman and he can't do that if he's moving at the speed you're talking about it's just impossible his words would be undiscernible.
Even Flash can't understand him if he doesn't slow his perception

If he doesn't slow his relative time rate WW couldn't possibly understand what he was saying to her. To BA able to talk to her his movement and reaction has to be vastly below light speed

Originally posted by beatboks
Even when zoom is moving at slow speed he is in multiple locations his link to time is tenuous and elastic he pops in and out of time the fact is he was holding a conversation with Wonder Woman and he can't do that if he's moving at the speed you're talking about it's just impossible his words would be undiscernible.
Even Flash can't understand him if he doesn't slow his perception

If he doesn't slow his relative time rate WW couldn't possibly understand what he was saying to her. To BA able to talk to her his movement and reaction has to be vastly below light speed

What are you talking about? No where did you show that Zoom is in multiple locations simultaneously. He appears that way because he is moving to those different locations on purpose. Zoom doesn't control space but TIME. Zoom can only slow or speed up time. He doesn't teleport.

In fiction, talking while being in super speed mode is possible. It happens all the time. In Flash (tv show) we see reverse flash moving so fast that we see two separate beings. One (the doctor) is talking while the other (in reverse flash costume) is pretending to be in a containment field.

Flash has several times talked to people while still able to perceive shit in slow motion.

Originally posted by h1a8
What are you talking about? No where did you show that Zoom is in multiple locations simultaneously. He appears that way because he is moving to those different locations on purpose. Zoom doesn't control space but TIME. Zoom can only slow or speed up time. He doesn't teleport.

In fiction, talking while being in super speed mode is possible. It happens all the time. In Flash (tv show) we see reverse flash moving so fast that we see two separate beings. One (the doctor) is talking while the other (in reverse flash costume) is pretending to be in a containment field.

Flash has several times talked to people while still able to perceive shit in slow motion.

OMG Dude. Innthebscans where WW is facing Zoom he is talkimg to her. Zoom doesn't have speed he is at an altered time rate. His comparative rate at base is vastly greater. In FLASH 197/198 when he gets his powers he basically knocks over a glass of water on his bedside table (in hospital) and thinks a bit, walks out of the room looks around a bit and realized it's still the same second with time unmoved and his glass still on a slight angle not more than a drop spilt after doing all that.

At this default comparative rate when he speaks it isnindepherable to anyone (including Flash who can hold a conversation with other speedster in a picosecond). Basically at his default we would barelynhear a sound at all. Even Wally can't work out what he's saying in this state (as per the scan I just showed). In a previous post I posted a scan from the next issue where he said it was difficult to alter his perception so he could talk and Linda understand him. He was still a novice in his power then.

What shows Zoom's actual speeding the images because he pops in and out of time. Each single step can be another image. The more jumbled the letters in his speech balloons the faster comparatively he is going.

If WW can understand what he is saying and he's talking (which he was) he can't be at the comparative rate your saying he is. If his comparative rate is that high then he would speak a sentence and would be perceived by WW as a few letters only

Originally posted by beatboks
OMG Dude. Innthebscans where WW is facing Zoom he is talkimg to her. Zoom doesn't have speed he is at an altered time rate. His comparative rate at base is vastly greater. In FLASH 197/198 when he gets his powers he basically knocks over a glass of water on his bedside table (in hospital) and thinks a bit, walks out of the room looks around a bit and realized it's still the same second with time unmoved and his glass still on a slight angle not more than a drop spilt after doing all that.

At this default comparative rate when he speaks it isnindepherable to anyone (including Flash who can hold a conversation with other speedster in a picosecond). Basically at his default we would barelynhear a sound at all. Even Wally can't work out what he's saying in this state (as per the scan I just showed). In a previous post I posted a scan from the next issue where he said it was difficult to alter his perception so he could talk and Linda understand him. He was still a novice in his power then.

What shows Zoom's actual speeding the images because he pops in and out of time. Each single step can be another image. The more jumbled the letters in his speech balloons the faster comparatively he is going.

If WW can understand what he is saying and he's talking (which he was) he can't be at the comparative rate your saying he is. If his comparative rate is that high then he would speak a sentence and would be perceived by WW as a few letters only

Basically you have no proof that Zoom teleports or pops in an out of time. You are just making stuff up.
No where in comics state this. Your speculation is not proof.

We clearly see Zoom using speed to create after images of himself

It's been explained to you the inconsistency of fiction of speedsters talking in normal speed while still perceiving things as a statue.

Even if Zoom is popping in and out of time then the feat is still vastly superior to anything Maxima has done. This is because we literally see at least 3 Zooms. He is popping in an out at such a fast rate that we see multiple Zooms simultaneously.

Zoom has his own timeline. He's not fast per se, as per his original appearance.

This is why Flash could never steal his speed.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Zoom has his own timeline. He's not fast per se, as per his original appearance.

This is why Flash could never steal his speed.

Exactly. Beatboks is trying to claim that Zoom teleports in an out of existence instead of just slowing down his time.

Yeah he just controls time and the rate at which it flows.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah he just controls time and the rate at which it flows.

Originally posted by h1a8
Wrong! Superman isn't moving. Maxima slows down so Superman stops and tries to talk to her. Even if Superman was moving, it is not very fast. You can clearly see Superman trying to talk to her.

The art does not support what you are saying about Maxima complying with Superman's demands at all. In the panel where Superman tells Maxima 'Stop! I want a word with you!":

- Maxima's limbs remain stretched straight back behind her in the direction of her energy trail and speed lines.
- Maxima is in the exact same aerodynamic pose from two panels earlier with the same energy trail and speed lines behind her.
- Superman's legs are stretched straight back behind him.
- The vector of Superman's motion trail intercepts with Maxima.
- Superman's flight trail clearly shows that he sped past her and looped back towards Maxima head on.
- Superman's fists are out in front just as they are out in front in the previous panel before he passes her.

Originally posted by h1a8

I never claimed that Maxima wasn't faster than a human. But there are infinite levels of Super speed. WW can react, perceive, and move limbs at the speed of light. Escape velocity isn't even 1% the speed of light. Having super speed doesn't grant immunity to ALL levels of super-speed.

This is a straw-man. You were under the illusion that an out-of-context argument was being made to conflate flying at escape velocity with combat speed (perception speed and limb speed). From the very beginning, my position has been that Maxima's flight speed is in the escape velocity ballpark when she is being intercepted by Superman coming straight at her. Therefore, given those travel speeds, if she didn't have the commensurate reaction time to perform the grab right before impact as the art illustrates, she would have just plowed into Superman way up above Metropolis.

Moreover, just as he approaches street-level, Superman recovers from the judo-throw and hearkens back to the time when he used his super-speed and tagged Matrix Supergirl from behind in 'Superman 21', thinking, "She's strong, and fast!". Maxima's speed feat in 'Action Comics 651' that triggers Clark's memory is better because she catches Superman from the front.

Also, since you often seem to bring up Zoom as some sort of benchmark, that story with Wonder Woman and Zoom -- you could easily swap out Diana and have Hunter try and make Maxima a better hero and it would be just as plausible. Wonder Woman's warrior training that is sometimes used as a comic book reason for her to catch a super-speedster with more raw speed than her wouldn't be an advantage against Maxima. Maxima is an actual warlord who sits at the apex of a vast intergalactic empire. If you want, you could even put a blindfold over Maxima's eyes too.

Originally posted by Arabus
The art does not support what you are saying about Maxima complying with Superman's demands at all. In the panel where Superman tells Maxima 'Stop! I want a word with you!":

- Maxima's limbs remain stretched straight back behind her in the direction of her energy trail and speed lines.
- Maxima is in the exact same aerodynamic pose from two panels earlier with the same energy trail and speed lines behind her.
- Superman's legs are stretched straight back behind him.
- The vector of Superman's motion trail intercepts with Maxima.
- Superman's flight trail clearly shows that he sped past her and looped back towards Maxima head on.
- Superman's fists are out in front just as they are out in front in the previous panel before he passes her.

Ok Let's assume it was at escape velocity (which requires proof). You are basically trying to prove that she has superhuman reflexes and perceptions. I'll finish my argument after your next quote below.

This is a straw-man. You were under the illusion that an out-of-context argument was being made to conflate flying at escape velocity with combat speed (perception speed and limb speed). From the very beginning, my position has been that Maxima's flight speed is in the escape velocity ballpark when she is being intercepted by Superman coming straight at her. Therefore, given those travel speeds, if she didn't have the commensurate reaction time to perform the grab right before impact as the art illustrates, she would have just plowed into Superman way up above Metropolis.

Moreover, just as he approaches street-level, Superman recovers from the judo-throw and hearkens back to the time when he used his super-speed and tagged Matrix Supergirl from behind in 'Superman 21', thinking, "She's strong, and fast!". Maxima's speed feat in 'Action Comics 651' that triggers Clark's memory is better because she catches Superman from the [B]front.

[/B]

Bottomline: Having the perception and reactions to act at escape velocity (assumingly the speed she was moving) is not even 0.01% the perception and reactions to act at light speed.

Your fallacy lies when you prove that Maxima has superspeed (do I have to add commensurate perceptions and reactions lol) and assume that it grants immunity to all levels of superspeed. You basically ignored the whole spirit of my argument over some nitpicky stuff. Not cool 😠

Also, since you often seem to bring up Zoom as some sort of benchmark, that story with Wonder Woman and Zoom -- you could easily swap out Diana and have Hunter try and make Maxima a better hero and it would be just as plausible. Wonder Woman's warrior training that is sometimes used as a comic book reason for her to catch a super-speedster with more raw speed than her wouldn't be an advantage against Maxima. Maxima is an actual warlord who sits at the apex of a vast intergalactic empire. If you want, you could even put a blindfold over Maxima's eyes too.

As it stands, WW is astronomically faster than Maxima and would have the greatest chance, of the two, to land the first significant attack.