World Forger vs the Black Winter

Started by Stoic6 pages

Originally posted by abhilegend
Well he has created literally every universe in the multiverse, so what do you want him to do? Go outside the multiverse to fight someone?

No, that's simply dumb. Comic writers don't tend to think of "combat feats".

The comic literally says he is among the four most powerful beings in the whole multiverse, he creates hypertime, every universe in the multiverse and a second multiverse and you think that's just hype? Dude, most abstracts in marvel would kill for that kind of feats in so little time.

But sure, let's talk about Eternity's combat feats. That's above Black Winter, right?

He's a Darkseid level character not an omnipotent Mxy level character when scaled against his brother who fought Darkseid. At least until proven otherwise. We can't give him more than that because he hasn't contended with more than that in single combat.

There are discrepancies all over the place in terms of his scope of power vs his actual combat feats. This is why I said that until he actually fights and either holds his own, or outright defeats a Doctor Manhattan level character in combat he doesn't deserve these lofty titles. The word multiversal has been thrown around like candy corn on Halloween for the past 2 years, and has somehow lost it's wow factor as the writers of DC have peddled it about like some golden egg. It's been given to characters that have yet to show that they could wave away a universe let alone multiverses like a true omnipotent could do on a whim. Darkseid for the most part isn't on that level in 99.8% to 99.9% of his appearances.

World Forger needs actual combat feats here bro. No I'm not siding with Marvel, I'm siding with lack of actual combat appearances, and swinging a magical hammer that creates alternate universes should never be enough to say that he stomps anything above what has been shown by his peers.

Take note that I didn't actually state that Black Winter wins this, but more to the idea that we really don't know based on World Forger's lack of actual combat feats.

Originally posted by Stoic
He's a Darkseid level character not an omnipotent Mxy level character when scaled against his brother who fought Darkseid. At least until proven otherwise. We can't give him more than that because he hasn't contended with more than that in single combat.

Mxy himself said that the three brothers were more powerful than him.

But sure, let's put everything on the Darkseid showing.

There are discrepancies all over the place in terms of his scope of power vs his actual combat feats. This is why I said that until he actually fights and either holds his own, or outright defeats a Doctor Manhattan level character in combat he doesn't deserve these lofty titles. The word multiversal has been thrown around like candy corn on Halloween for the past 2 years, and has somehow lost it's wow factor as the writers of DC have peddled it about like some golden egg. It's been given to characters that have yet to show that they could wave away a universe let alone multiverses like a true omnipotent could do on a whim. Darkseid for the most part isn't on that level in 99.8% to 99.9% of his appearances.

Then that's your problem not the writers.

World Forger needs actual combat feats here bro. No I'm not siding with Marvel, I'm siding with lack of actual combat appearances, and swinging a magical hammer that creates alternate universes should never be enough to say that he stomps anything above what has been shown by his peers.

He really doesn't. His feats are outrageous even at that level. He has created two multiverses. Not one, two. His pet had to be beaten by rewriting the multiverse. His brother (Anti Monitor) destroyed an infinite multiverse just recently.

"B-but Darkseid" isn't an argument, it's just lowballing.

Take note that I didn't actually state that Black Winter wins this, but more to the idea that we really don't know based on World Forger's lack of actual combat feats.

Why would he need combat feats? Do you ask for Eternity or Beyonders combat feats?

Black Winter stomps. This is LITERALLY WF's best combat feat 😂

Originally posted by abhilegend
Mxy himself said that the three brothers were more powerful than him.

But sure, let's put everything on the Darkseid showing.

Then that's your problem not the writers.

He really doesn't. His feats are outrageous even at that level. He has created two multiverses. Not one, two. His pet had to be beaten by rewriting the multiverse. His brother (Anti Monitor) destroyed an infinite multiverse just recently.

"B-but Darkseid" isn't an argument, it's just lowballing.

Why would he need combat feats? Do you ask for Eternity or Beyonders combat feats?

He asked for a combat feat, creation doesn't equal destruction.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Black Winter stomps. This is LITERALLY WF's best combat feat 😂

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
He asked for a combat feat, creation doesn't equal destruction.

😂

Shut up troll.

Stoic, The three brothers are weaker outside of the 6th dimension. This is why AM needed to consume universes to contend with DS. DS was operating at his true form levels in that arc and was an unstoppable force. DS in that arc would beat BW with the way he was destroying universes and even made heaven leave. IIRC even took over the flames of creation. Losing to that DS outside of the 6th dimension isn’t a low showing.

WF is older than AM and is more powerful. He was ready to kill him when they separated. Maybe both were weak, WF was weaker for sure, but he did make AM cry to his Mommy.

WF > greater than a AM that can contend with DS that made Heaven retreat.
A strike of his hammer can destroy universes. BW will not survive that type of attack.

Diesldude, who was that in the Yellow Lanterns Corp? Was that not the Anti Monitor, or was that a puppet body?

That was Anti Monitor but he wasn't fully reborn.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Mxy himself said that the three brothers were more powerful than him.

But sure, let's put everything on the Darkseid showing.

Then that's your problem not the writers.

He really doesn't. His feats are outrageous even at that level. He has created two multiverses. Not one, two. His pet had to be beaten by rewriting the multiverse. His brother (Anti Monitor) destroyed an infinite multiverse just recently.

"B-but Darkseid" isn't an argument, it's just lowballing.

Why would he need combat feats? Do you ask for Eternity or Beyonders combat feats?

Calm down, you're projecting. You can't just give characters a pass without the actual feats to back it is what I'm saying. Not sure why you're being so apprehensive about this? It's simple. He has nearly no combat showings against any beings that can wipe out a universe. Eternity was directly scaled against the Infinity Gauntlet at a time when the IG was considered to be God or nearly God of the Marvel Universe.

Without the snide slick comments, where is the World Forger shown to be a peer of Doctor Manhattan, because I'm not sure how high your ceiling reaches concerning him and his siblings power levels.

Originally posted by Stoic
Calm down, you're projecting. You can't just give characters a pass without the actual feats to back it is what I'm saying.

Agreed. Reed Richard's said Hulk = the Phoenix Force and I would love for ABHI to agree with that.

Originally posted by Stoic
Calm down, you're projecting. You can't just give characters a pass without the actual feats to back it is what I'm saying.

What the hell are you talking about? I'm giving actual feats for Forger here which happened in the comics.

Not sure why you're being so apprehensive about this? It's simple. He has nearly no combat showings against any beings that can wipe out a universe. Eternity was directly scaled against the Infinity Gauntlet at a time when the IG was considered to be God or nearly God of the Marvel Universe.

And got beaten. Getting beaten is not a feat, Shang Chi was sent against HOTI Thanos, should we consider that a feat now?

Without the snide slick comments, where is the World Forger shown to be a peer of Doctor Manhattan, because I'm not sure how high your ceiling reaches concerning him and his siblings power levels.

Why would Dr Manhattan level feat be necessary to beat Black Winter? Are you saying cosmic Thor is Dr Manhattan level now?

Originally posted by carver9
Agreed. Reed Richard's said Hulk = the Phoenix Force and I would love for ABHI to agree with that.

**** off.

Originally posted by abhilegend
What the hell are you talking about? I'm giving actual feats for Forger here which happened in the comics.

And got beaten. Getting beaten is not a feat, Shang Chi was sent against HOTI Thanos, should we consider that a feat now?

Why would Dr Manhattan level feat be necessary to beat Black Winter? Are you saying cosmic Thor is Dr Manhattan level now?

You managed to ask questions without actually answering any that I've asked. Why are you being so apprehensive about this? You do realize that I'm not invested in either side and that I'm more confused than anything right?

What generally has me confused is the fact that he didn't seem to live up to the story that built him up to the levels mentioned. Perhaps I need to wait for DarkSaint to walk me through this because you're buggin out on me. But maybe I missed something in your recent statement? I'll check out what you're saying in relation to his actual combat feats.

Originally posted by Stoic
You managed to ask questions without actually answering any that I've asked. Why are you being so apprehensive about this? You do realize that I'm not invested in either side and that I'm more confused than anything right?

What generally has me confused is the fact that he didn't seem to live up to the story that built him up to the levels mentioned. Perhaps I need to wait for DarkSaint to walk me through this because you're buggin out on me. But maybe I missed something in your recent statement? I'll check out what you're saying in relation to his actual "combat feats."

Meaning: I will ignore everything and will wait for someone to say Forger loses because Superman punched him that one time.

Dude, he created two full multiverses, why do you need "combat feats" to know how powerful he is?

Abhi Shang vs Near Omnipotence is an outrageous comparison. The Black Winter by action casually wiped out a universe and none within that universe could stop him. It isn't as if I'm comparing a Gnat to a Super Volcano here, and if I am, where is the actual combat proof? It's as if you guys have decided these days that when two combatants get into match ups they begin by pulling out their dicks and the one with the smallest runs away in sheer terror of an inevitable dick down. Like I said, perhaps I'll wait for DarkSaint to walk me through this.

Originally posted by Diesldude
Stoic, The three brothers are weaker outside of the 6th dimension. This is why AM needed to consume universes to contend with DS. DS was operating at his true form levels in that arc and was an unstoppable force. DS in that arc would beat BW with the way he was destroying universes and even made heaven leave. IIRC even took over the flames of creation. Losing to that DS outside of the 6th dimension isn’t a low showing.

WF is older than AM and is more powerful. He was ready to kill him when they separated. Maybe both were weak, WF was weaker for sure, but he did make AM cry to his Mommy.

WF > greater than a AM that can contend with DS that made Heaven retreat.
A strike of his hammer can destroy universes. BW will not survive that type of attack.

This is actually more along the lines of what should be argued. However it wasn't as if the Black Winter struggled to destroy a universe on panel himself. Wasn't it stated that he had destroyed other universes in that arc as well? You see where I'm coming from? Thor beating him was a crazy feat.

Originally posted by Stoic
Abhi Shang vs Near Omnipotence is an outrageous comparison. The Black Winter by action casually wiped out a universe and none within that universe could stop him. It isn't as if I'm comparing a Gnat to a Super Volcano here, and if I am, where is the actual combat proof? It's as if you guys have decided these days that when two combatants get into match ups they begin by pulling out their dicks and the one with the smallest runs away in sheer terror of an inevitable dick down. Like I said, perhaps I'll wait for DarkSaint to walk me through this.

Who exactly did he fight in that universe who is near Dr Manhattan level as you are claiming?

This is actually more along the lines of what should be argued. However it wasn't as if the Black Winter struggled to destroy a universe on panel himself. Wasn't it stated that he had destroyed other universes in that arc as well? You see where I'm coming from? Thor beating him was a crazy feat.

So Black Winter destroyed a universe? Wonderful, even Barbatos can do that. Heck even Hawkman turned into Barbatos' dragon could do that.

Why is that impressive again?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Just retconned into not being a mutant. He wanted to be special, and his powers transmuted his genetic code to carry the X-gene. He was never a mutant.

😂

Issue?

Neither a Skyfather nor Galactus alone is multiversal level, nor should Thor with Galactus's powers be.

Mr Master, the supreme of marvel cosmic camp

conceded Molecule Man can only stalemate World Forger

you ignorant boys might as well concede

Originally posted by Killemall/Mr Master
stalemate

Originally posted by abhilegend
Meaning: I will ignore everything and will wait for someone to say Forger loses because Superman punched him that one time.

Dude, he created two full multiverses, why do you need "combat feats" to know how powerful he is?

Now, I agree that Forget is above BW in power and that really can't be denied but...

Creating something still isn't a combat feat.

He can create all the multiverses he wants and it still not be an attack.it just isn't. So the logic is faulty.

Unless he creates a multiverse and drops it on him?

Regardless, they both operate at different tiers and have little to no actual feats to go off of, so I would say Forger should win this. But not because he "created" something.

Forger: stand by for my special attack CREATING A MULTIVERSE!!!

BW: ok? So we gonna fight?

Forger: We are! I have created a multiverse at you! And another! And another! Multiverses everywhere!

BW: oooook *self bfrs*