Superman vs Knull

Basically every exmaple he gave is wrong.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Where does Hickman say anything about holding two universes apart?

He responds in a vague non confirming way to a fan who said that.

Universes were coming towards him, he made contact with the two universes by way of the earths of each universe being moved along. The earths broke apart and then the universes collided.

He literally did nothing but hold two earths back until they broke from the pressure.

Now if the earths were literally meant to have universe level weight that would mean something, but that's not stated anywhere.

Also, breaking SoulFire Darkseid in half shits on ripping Sentry in half.

Yet in Caps case Reed stated he was moving an entire universe away by moving Earth, implying that the universe is focused on Earth during incursion time. It also matches with Earth being destroyed one at a time and its respective universe being wiped out.

that pressure you're making light of is a universe.

Originally posted by h1a8
Please refrain from the dreaded ios apostrophe. I can't quote you properly.

The Celestials that Knull fought were not as fast as Superman can be. They were slow as shit as in all of their appearances (except the one you posted). So that scan means absolutely nothing.

I didn't read the Thor fight (must just happened). Are you sure that's the same sword that killed the Celestials (the Necrosword)?

Before I go any further, let me make something clear. If you disagree with what I'm about to say then let's discuss that and leave this debate on hold.
Here goes.

You can't use a characters highest showings as the same level they were operating at in any and every other scene. Characters have highs and lows. This is fiction, not real life. Thor has good strength feats but when he fights most of the time, he is nowhere near as strong (or is using as much force) as his highest showings. Otherwise, everytime Gladiator punched someone then it was with planet busting force. Now in a forum fight, Thor is as strong as was shown at his best. But not in a comic.

With that said, give Knull feats of blunt force resistance. Give Knull feats of fighting speed and reflexes.

Hyperion didn't hold two Universes apart. He held two planets apart for a slight moment until the planets shattered. Basically he supplied the force capable of shattering planets. Imagine two strong men slowly coming toward each other with an egg each and with full strength, attempting to press and smash the eggs together. You jump in-between them and attempt to prevent the the eggs from touching by trying to push each egg away. Both eggs shatter. Did you defeat the pushing force of either man? Or did you simply supply the force capable of breaking two eggs?

Also, even if the planets were indestructible and Hyperion managed to hold them apart then still how much force was that? The planets could have been pushed with 1 ton of force for all we know. You know the universe is pushing shit right now as it expands? So if you stop something in space did you exert more than 1 billion tons of force?

Sentry has always been kinda squishy. You have him melting in a star, IM busting his nose, etc. In all honesty, I'm not impressed by someone pulling him apart. And even so, that feat is not even close to what Superman has done with the chains.

P.S. The presense is an abstract being (not material or made of matter). Your example fails.

🤦 Given that the incursions were a unique event, and earths destruction resulted in the destruction of said universe (in that case), and while Earth was appearing in the sky, no other planets recorded it (Shiar and the others never recorded anything similar on their home world, colonies or empires to my knowledge), It's possible at the time the universe is lying on Earth itself (not literally as in all planets are squashed one on top of the other) but its energies and weights could be collecting there during incursion.

Also, where is this "slight moment" from? The book gives no amount of time that Hyperion held them apart. It simply says that he held them apart until they broke.

That Knull calls his sword "All-Black" in today's issue is not surprising. It's absurd to think that he can't create now what he created before.

And regarding speed, the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Knull's speed capacity is unknown though we do know that he does have superspeed. The way speed is used on this forum by Superman fans is ludicrous. PIS was never intended as such.

Originally posted by Enzeru
Which one is that? ' or "? I used to have and use both on Windows as well.

You can't just disregard stuff you don't like. Fact is that cosmic beings like the Celestials are beyond such a simple concept like speed.
How often has Superman went "intangible" with his super speed? Once? You'd still give it to him as his base ability. Stop being biased towards one side.

Yep. Also called the All-Black:
https://i.imgur.com/Evd0ta8.jpg

Knull pulled it out of his back and stabbed Thor with it in "King in Black #3". So it seems to be standard gear for him.

But... you're doing exactly the same with Superman? In your opinion everyone is a statue to Superman, even though he has been bitchslapped by Mongul more than once. In your opinion no one comes close to Superman in strength, because hurrdurr chains and galaxies.

And then when someone does the same for other characters – and with feats, which take a huge dump on anything Superman has ever done... You immediately start crying and talking about highs and lows. Get your double standards sorted out.

Gimme feats of Superman killing someone on the level of an abstract Celestial. Gimme feats of Superman killing an actual immortal being like the Sentry.

I'm not even going to respond to your egg nonsense. You can stand on eggs. You can try to squeeze an egg in your hand and you will fail, if you grab it in the correct way. Which is not my argument against your stupid argument – just a Flash Enzeru Fact.

And yes, Hyperion held two universes apart:
https://i.imgur.com/uI2ERFX.jpeg

"He is literally pushing an entire universe hidden from us."

The Earths were being pushed by the Incursion, which was the universe. Captain America was using the Infinity Gauntlet to push the entire universe back. Hyperion was physically holding two universes back, until the worlds collapsed under the pressure and the universes exploded. Don't like it? That's too bad. But let's not start talking about Kryptonian "stars", which only weigh as much as a star, but don't have its brightness, heat or gravitational pull, because "hurrr durrr, it's comics bro, not everything has to make sense."

Now matter how you turn and twist it: Hyperion was pushing back against the force of two universes. And the survived their explosion, which was also confirmed by the writer:

https://i.imgur.com/PegaC8B.png

Nothing Superman has ever done comes even close to that. And Hyperion isn't even the top dog in Marvel. That spot goes to the Sentry. And Sentry got ripped apart by Knull like yesterdays newspaper.

Sentrys power scales with his mental stability. He was pretty damn unstable during the World War Hulk arc and he was eating Hulks punches, smiling and asking for more. Pretty durable at his lowest, if you ask me.

Other than that, who has ever truly taken care of the Sentry? You say the sun. Well, Sentry flew into the sun with the intention to kill himself. Looks like he can lower his durability enough to get himself burnt down to a single atom in the sun, but he can't prevent from regenerating back to normal – until he is fully restored, where he then lets himself get killed again.

What else? The Molecule Man? It's the Molecule Man. The Molecule Man would do the same to Superman and Superman wouldn't come back from that.
What else? Morgana Le Fay? She traveled back to his past and killed him as a child, where he didn't have his power. He still came back.

And Knull was somehow able to still kill the Sentry and prevent him from regenerating. That in itself is an absolutely insane, cosmic, abstract level feat.

I just hope for your own sake that you don't truly believe Superman could ever possibly rip the Sentry in half.

Both the " and the '.
Celestials was shown to operate in real time. Their attacks have been avoided and they have been tagged multiple times. What is shown >>>>> fanfiction. Celestials didn't use any form of speed against Knull. Therefore, Knull doesn't get any speed feats for fighting them. Period.

You are confusing my argument. A character gets his highest showing in a forum fight, not in a random scene in a comic that shows the contrary. For example, you can use that Celestial speed scan to represent the Celestials when they are fighting in a forum fight. You can't use that feat in a random scene where it explicitly shows them fighting slow. I hope you understand me here.

But I'm not doing the same for Superman. I'm not arguing that Mongul is millions of times faster than light just because he tagged Superman. I'm not even arguing that he is 1/1000 times as fast as Superman (he isn't). Superman doesn't always use his speed in comics just like everyone else (Celestials). So just because someone tags a Celestial doesn't mean they are a speedster.

You are using circular reasoning. You are assuming those feats takes a dump on Superman's feats without proof. I rebutted why Hyperion's feat doesn't. You taking me out of context. I talked about lows and highs in comics, not in a forum character. To be clear. Gladiator has highs and lows in comics. So when he punches a character IN A COMIC we shouldn't assume that he used planet busting power. Now in a forum, Gladiator does come with his planet busting power. See the difference?

I can give you Superman's speed feats and his strength feats. Then we can extrapolate what he will do to Knull. That's how it works.

The scan can be interpreted as pushing the Earth's pushes the universes. Just like pushing a button moves an island. There is no such thing as force of a universe.

If something doesn't make sense then you have no leg to stand on to speculate on what you think the writer intent was. The planets were shattered. Ergo, Hyperion only supplied that amount of force. Writer's interviews are not allowed for specific reasons. Another scans says that preventing the planets from touching prevents the incursion (which random beings have achieved with tech).

Speculation that Sentry lowers his durability? Superman breaking the chains is astronomically more force than ripping Sentry in half. No where does Sentry have durability feats that are equal or above those chains.

Originally posted by TheHulkster

And regarding speed, the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Knull's speed capacity is unknown though we do know that he does have superspeed. The way speed is used on this forum by Superman fans is ludicrous. PIS was never intended as such.

That is false. The onus is on the one assigning special attributes to a character to prove they have them.
If there is no evidence of a character having a special attribute (with a specific magnitude) then no one can claim that character has them.
Lastly, absence of evidence of a special attribute = writer's intent for the character not having that special attribute.

Knull doesn't say he's using All Black on Thor, though. He's saying that Thor - who has tasted All Black - now has the pleasure of being hurt by its creator.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Knull doesn't say he's using All Black Cock on Thor, though. He's saying that Thor - who has tasted All Black Cock - now has the pleasure of being hurt by its creator.

ftfy

Originally posted by h1a8

Both the " and the '.

Yeah, I'm not going to stop using those. Not being perceived as illiterate as Insane Titan is more important to me than you being able to quote me properly.

Originally posted by h1a8

Celestials was shown to operate in real time. Their attacks have been avoided and they have been tagged multiple times. What is shown >>>>> fanfiction. Celestials didn't use any form of speed against Knull. Therefore, Knull doesn't get any speed feats for fighting them. Period.

Superman is also shown to operate in real time. His attacks have been avoided and he has been tagged multiple times. What is shown >>>>> Your personal bias.
Superman didn't use any form of speed against Mongul except flying fast at him. During the 2018 Superman run, Superman fought Mongul for three entire issues (#19-#21),got his ass knocked out during the fight and let countless innocents die. He hit Mongul with his hardest shot and Mongul was still standing. At no point was Mongul a statue to Superman. Therefore, Superman doesn't have any speed, if we go by his fight against Mongul.

Do you see how dumb your arguments are?

We know that Superman has super speed, because he has shown it on other occasions. But not every comic book fight will feature the entire array of powers a character (or a character race) has for obvious comic book writing reasons. Yet in a forum fight we do take their abilities into count no matter what happened during instances, where their powers haven't been displayed.

Originally posted by h1a8

You are confusing my argument. A character gets his highest showing in a forum fight, not in a random scene in a comic that shows the contrary. For example, you can use that Celestial speed scan to represent the Celestials when they are fighting in a forum fight. You can't use that feat in a random scene where it explicitly shows them fighting slow. I hope you understand me here.

No, I legitimately did not understand what you just wrote. It's gibberish. Most of your arguments are moot in general. You're known for that around here.

Here is an example on what you get completely wrong:
- The Sentry has teleported multiple times. For the sake of the argument let's say he has teleported only once in his 21 years of existence. The fact remains that he can teleport.
- In a forum fight in character you wouldn't use his teleportation, because every time he has teleported it was under emotional distress. When he is calm, he just flies fast.
- In a forum fight with characters at their best and out of character, Sentry can teleport all he wants, because it's an active part of his power set.

The speed of Celestials is not linked to anything character related. They have it at their disposal all the time. When Eternity fights a top tier Celestial for a second, billions of actions take place. Period. But since you don't see that on panel or at least described in the narration, you'd have them be statues for Superman, which shows your ridiculous bias. Don't make me continue listing opponents, who have beat the crap out of Superman – even though they themselves don't have a single speed feat on the level of a Celestial.

Originally posted by h1a8

You are using circular reasoning. You are assuming those feats takes a dump on Superman's feats without proof. I rebutted why Hyperion's feat doesn't. You taking me out of context. I talked about lows and highs in comics, not in a forum character. To be clear. Gladiator has highs and lows in comics. So when he punches a character IN A COMIC we shouldn't assume that he used planet busting power. Now in a forum, Gladiator does come with his planet busting power. See the difference?

You haven't rebutted anything regarding Hyperions feat. Comic book characters told you that by pushing the Earth, you were pushing a literal entire universe and the writer of the story told you that those were universes being pushed. You're just throwing out random nonsense, because you read "worlds" in one of the panels.
The feat remains as it is: Hyperion was holding back two universes from collapsing into each other, until their respective Earths gave in, exploded and destroyed the two universes. Hyperion survived those two universal explosions.

Originally posted by h1a8

I can give you Superman's speed feats and his strength feats. Then we can extrapolate what he will do to Knull. That's how it works.

Give me a single Superman feat, which comes even close to Hyperions two universes feat. You can't. And now think about what Knull did to a character more powerful than Hyperion. Knull does not need to lift the Earth for 6 days straight for you to understand that he is stronger than Superman. If he can rip the Sentry apart, then he can rip Superman apart even easier.

Originally posted by h1a8

The scan can be interpreted as pushing the Earth's pushes the universes. Just like pushing a button moves an island. There is no such thing as force of a universe.

No. Stop. The entire context of the story told you otherwise. The characters themselves told you otherwise. And the writer of the story told you otherwise. Hyperion held two universes apart until the Earths gave in and he survived two universes exploding with him at the very center of the explosion.

Originally posted by h1a8

If something doesn't make sense then you have no leg to stand on to speculate on what you think the writer intent was. The planets were shattered. Ergo, Hyperion only supplied that amount of force. Writer's interviews are not allowed for specific reasons. Another scans says that preventing the planets from touching prevents the incursion (which random beings have achieved with tech).

Imagine you're standing in front of a truck. You put your hands against it. And on the other side you have the Hulk pressing against the truck. The truck is the Earth and the Hulk is the universe. And you are strong enough to actually hold back against the Hulk. So the Hulk keeps pressing with all of his universal strength, but you are pushing back – until eventually, the truck gives in and starts getting flattened.

It's absolutely the same thing. You're pushing back against a universal force, but there is still an object in the middle, which is being squished by the universal force and your counterforce.
It's so simple. And the only reason you're trying to discredit it, is because it makes Superman looks much worse compared to a Marvel character, who isn't even the top dog.

(Also, I completely understand that all of that is stupid comic book mumbo-jumbo. But if you want the Last Son to be a star with the weight of a star, but without the brightness / heat / gravitational pull of a star... then you must accept that mumbo-jumbo on Marvels side as well.)

Originally posted by h1a8

Speculation that Sentry lowers his durability? Superman breaking the chains is astronomically more force than ripping Sentry in half. No where does Sentry have durability feats that are equal or above those chains.

As I said, Hyperion has much greater strength and durability and he is well below the Sentry in terms of everything. Hyperions, Hulks and other powerhouses power was absorbed by Rogue and Death Seed Sentry mirrored all of that. And while the Death Seed provides an amp by unlocking a characters full potential... The Sentry himself has to be insanely powerful on his own to mirror all of that power.

And Sentry was still defeated by Knull in a rather effortless fashion. Superman wouldn't beat Sentry, let alone Knull. And he sure as hell wouldn't see any of them as statues. If you want to highball his speed to that level, then let's highball their strength and durability to levels above Hyperion.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
Yet in Caps case Reed stated he was moving an entire universe away by moving Earth, implying that the universe is focused on Earth during incursion time. It also matches with Earth being destroyed one at a time and its respective universe being wiped out.

that pressure you're making light of is a universe.

Originally posted by Diesldude

read the panel again, reed didn’t say he was pushing the universe because he was pushing on the earth. Smh he said cap was “literally” pushing the universe that they could not see. He literally said literally. You can’t freaking misinterpret that.

But these two things are connected.

If you see only a pimple hovering in front of you (which is attached to an invisible man) and you put your finger against that pimple and push it back... you're still pushing back the weight of an invisible man and not just a pimple. And if that invisible man pushes back the pimple will eventually burst and the invisible man will die from a horrible infection, because you've been jerking off whole day without washing your hands.

All of that has been stated and explained during the event in the comic and outside of the comic, when readers asked the writer to clear up the misconceptions. The misconceptions have been cleared, yet here you are still misinterpreting it. Stop. By pushing the rogue Earths back, you pushed a literal entire universe back.

Originally posted by Enzeru
But these two things are connected.

If you see only a pimple hovering in front of you (which is attached to an invisible man) and you put your finger against that pimple and push it back... you're still pushing back the weight of an invisible man and not just a pimple. And if that invisible man pushes back the pimple will eventually burst and the invisible man will die from a horrible infection, because you've been jerking off whole day without washing your hands.

All of that has been stated and explained during the event in the comic and outside of the comic, when readers asked the writer to clear up the misconceptions. The misconceptions have been cleared, yet here you are still misinterpreting it. Stop. By pushing the rogue Earths back, you pushed a literal entire universe back.

Yeah, The earth's are like tow trucks and the universe is like the car you stop the truck you stop the car
Only in this case you destroy the truck you destroy the car
Hyperion was able to stop both universes but the energy was too much and it broke on impact.

Originally posted by Enzeru
But these two things are connected.

If you see only a pimple hovering in front of you (which is attached to an invisible man) and you put your finger against that pimple and push it back... you're still pushing back the weight of an invisible man and not just a pimple. And if that invisible man pushes back the pimple will eventually burst and the invisible man will die from a horrible infection, because you've been jerking off whole day without washing your hands.

All of that has been stated and explained during the event in the comic and outside of the comic, when readers asked the writer to clear up the misconceptions. The misconceptions have been cleared, yet here you are still misinterpreting it. Stop. By pushing the rogue Earths back, you pushed a literal entire universe back.

But you aren't pushing the weight of the invisible Man back though, that's precisely the point.

You're pushing the pimple from one side, and the man is pushing from the other side. As soon as your combined strength/mass is too much for the durability of that pimple, it'll pop.

Another way of thinking about it, is if you strap a balloon to a speeding car and it crashes into you. Do you hold the car back at all?

Originally posted by Enzeru
But these two things are connected.

If you see only a pimple hovering in front of you (which is attached to an invisible man) and you put your finger against that pimple and push it back... you're still pushing back the weight of an invisible man and not just a pimple. And if that invisible man pushes back the pimple will eventually burst and the invisible man will die from a horrible infection, because you've been jerking off whole day without washing your hands.

All of that has been stated and explained during the event in the comic and outside of the comic, when readers asked the writer to clear up the misconceptions. The misconceptions have been cleared, yet here you are still misinterpreting it. Stop. By pushing the rogue Earths back, you pushed a literal entire universe back.

Originally posted by Enzeru
Yeah, I'm not going to stop using those. Not being perceived as illiterate as Insane Titan is more important to me than you being able to quote me properly.

Superman is also shown to operate in real time. His attacks have been avoided and he has been tagged multiple times. What is shown >>>>> Your personal bias.
Superman didn't use any form of speed against Mongul except flying fast at him. During the 2018 Superman run, Superman fought Mongul for three entire issues (#19-#21),got his ass knocked out during the fight and let countless innocents die. He hit Mongul with his hardest shot and Mongul was still standing. At no point was Mongul a statue to Superman. Therefore, Superman doesn't have any speed, if we go by his fight against Mongul.

Do you see how dumb your arguments are?

We know that Superman has super speed, because he has shown it on other occasions. But not every comic book fight will feature the entire array of powers a character (or a character race) has for obvious comic book writing reasons. Yet in a forum fight we do take their abilities into count no matter what happened during instances, where their powers haven't been displayed.

No, I legitimately did not understand what you just wrote. It's gibberish. Most of your arguments are moot in general. You're known for that around here.

Here is an example on what you get completely wrong:
- The Sentry has teleported multiple times. For the sake of the argument let's say he has teleported only once in his 21 years of existence. The fact remains that he can teleport.
- In a forum fight in character you wouldn't use his teleportation, because every time he has teleported it was under emotional distress. When he is calm, he just flies fast.
- In a forum fight with characters at their best and out of character, Sentry can teleport all he wants, because it's an active part of his power set.

The speed of Celestials is not linked to anything character related. They have it at their disposal all the time. When Eternity fights a top tier Celestial for a second, billions of actions take place. Period. But since you don't see that on panel or at least described in the narration, you'd have them be statues for Superman, which shows your ridiculous bias. Don't make me continue listing opponents, who have beat the crap out of Superman – even though they themselves don't have a single speed feat on the level of a Celestial.

You haven't rebutted anything regarding Hyperions feat. Comic book characters told you that by pushing the Earth, you were pushing a literal entire universe and the writer of the story told you that those were universes being pushed. You're just throwing out random nonsense, because you read "worlds" in one of the panels.
The feat remains as it is: Hyperion was holding back two universes from collapsing into each other, until their respective Earths gave in, exploded and destroyed the two universes. Hyperion survived those two universal explosions.

Give me a single Superman feat, which comes even close to Hyperions two universes feat. You can't. And now think about what Knull did to a character more powerful than Hyperion. Knull does not need to lift the Earth for 6 days straight for you to understand that he is stronger than Superman. If he can rip the Sentry apart, then he can rip Superman apart even easier.

No. Stop. The entire context of the story told you otherwise. The characters themselves told you otherwise. And the writer of the story told you otherwise. Hyperion held two universes apart until the Earths gave in and he survived two universes exploding with him at the very center of the explosion.

Imagine you're standing in front of a truck. You put your hands against it. And on the other side you have the Hulk pressing against the truck. The truck is the Earth and the Hulk is the universe. And you are strong enough to actually hold back against the Hulk. So the Hulk keeps pressing with all of his universal strength, but you are pushing back – until eventually, the truck gives in and starts getting flattened.

It's absolutely the same thing. You're pushing back against a universal force, but there is still an object in the middle, which is being squished by the universal force and your counterforce.
It's so simple. And the only reason you're trying to discredit it, is because it makes Superman looks much worse compared to a Marvel character, who isn't even the top dog.

(Also, I completely understand that all of that is stupid comic book mumbo-jumbo. But if you want the Last Son to be a star with the weight of a star, but without the brightness / heat / gravitational pull of a star... then you must accept that mumbo-jumbo on Marvels side as well.)

As I said, Hyperion has much greater strength and durability and he is well below the Sentry in terms of everything. Hyperions, Hulks and other powerhouses power was absorbed by Rogue and Death Seed Sentry mirrored all of that. And while the Death Seed provides an amp by unlocking a characters full potential... The Sentry himself has to be insanely powerful on his own to mirror all of that power.

And Sentry was still defeated by Knull in a rather effortless fashion. Superman wouldn't beat Sentry, let alone Knull. And he sure as hell wouldn't see any of them as statues. If you want to highball his speed to that level, then let's highball their strength and durability to levels above Hyperion.

If you are using ios to type then simply hold the ' or " and you will see alternate versions of those characters that you can use.

You still don't get it. You are not too bright are you. Some Celestials in a forum fight are fast because of their feats. Celestials in a random comic scene WERE NOT fast because they were moving slowly. So Knull doesn't get any speed just because he fought them. I can list other SLOW CHARACTERS that tagged Celestials. Knull tagging them isnt a speed feat. Mongul isn't a speedster in a forum either, just because he tagged Superman.

We are not told otherwise. Pushing back a planet pushes back the universe doesn't imply one is directly pushing back a universe. You can literally pick up a regular pencil and push back a universe if that's what the writer wants. Pushing a universe could require planet moving strength only. You are speculating here.

Your example is flawed too. Trucks (planets) have a certain amount of pressure they can withstand before folding. Once that pressure is met then the then those objects fold.

Lastly, you can't use a characters highest feat as the level they were operating at when they fought a particular character. Hyperion never fought Hulk at planet moving strength (far less than that). Therefore, your abc logic is flawed and Hyperion's feat has nothing to do with this fight.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

But you aren't pushing the weight of the invisible Man back though, that's precisely the point.

You're pushing the pimple from one side, and the man is pushing from the other side. As soon as your combined strength/mass is too much for the durability of that pimple, it'll pop.

Another way of thinking about it, is if you strap a balloon to a speeding car and it crashes into you. Do you hold the car back at all?

I understand all of that. But that line of thinking wasn't really the case during the Incursion event. During the Incursion event universes were collapsing into each other with their respective Earths being the tip of the spear.

If it was as simple as you believe it to be, then – like Diesldude has correctly stated it in another thread – the Earth wouldn't even withstand a single attosecond of universal force from one side (universe) and from the other.

But there was some stupid comic book mumbo-jumbo there. The same kind of stupid comic book mumbo-jumbo you demanded me to accept during our Last Son discussion.
And that stupid comic book mumbo-jumbo here ended up being the Earth being more durable than it should have been. The Earths were being moved by an universal force. Hyperion halted that universal force and was pushing back against it until the Earths eventually gave in and got destroyed. And this is where our opinions differ:

https://i.imgur.com/b0QfAvz.jpg

"Hyperion held them apart ... until the worlds broke."

To me that sounds as if some amount of time passed. The Earths didn't immediately blow up like we would logically expect them to. They were durable enough to be halted, but not durable enough to withstand the on-going force.

You compare it to balloons on cars, which in my way is the wrong way to look at it. I compare it to two trucks being pushed by Hulk and the Abomination. If I place myself in between those trucks, press against them and stop them... I'm still stopping Hulks and Abominations force for a moment. And I keep holding them apart, but eventually the trucks start going in from Hulks and Abominations on-going effort and they get squeezed into oblivion.

Does it make perfect logical sense for Earths to be that durable? Hell no. Does it make perfect logical sense for Last Son to be an actual sentient star and be as heavy one, but not as bright or hot as one or have its gravitational pull? Hell no.

If the writer didn't state that Hyperion was holding two universes apart and if Reed Richards didn't state that by pushing the Earths, you were pushing literal invisible universes... I'd side with your line of thinking.
One further reason for me to believe that we were dealing with some major comic book mumbo jumbo, was when Hyperion pretty much caught and stopped a planet bigger than Earth traveling at 500.000 miles per hour. Logically speaking that planet would have been fuvked in that instance as well, but oh well: comic books, am I right?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

I responded to your post in the sentry thread. No reason to carry this convo across multiple threads, let’s go there and chat instead.

I read your post. Great post, really. I also started responding to it, but then found myself repeating myself over and over again, just like in my reply to DarkSaint85 above. I'm kinda getting tired of it, since to me it sounds like this is something we'll have to agree to disagree on.
I don't debate people in order to change their mind. Not anymore anyway. I find that to be an impossible task:

https://i.imgur.com/Y62zbZs.png

I debate to back up my beliefs and claims as good as possible and then let others (often outsiders, who came across the discussion) decide for themselves, which take they find to be more reasonable.
That's why I liked and praised your last post in the other thread. You argued your take on it in great detail and that's always the best any of us can do.

Agreed on the planet not even lasting one attosecond - it's actually been a point that I've made in the past.

In short, it's an amazing durability feat from Hype, less so as a strength feat, any more so than me standing between two trucks being pushed by the Hulk/Sentry is a strength feat.

Note that nowhere in the comic does it say the planets were stopped, btw . So in your example with Abom/Hulk, if you don't actually stop the trucks.....

Assuming that he held them apart of a particular amount of time then you are still speculating the force that was pushing them. The planet is in space and not directly connected to any other mass in that universe. It could be just enough force to allow Hyperion to momentarily hold the planets before the planets gave in.

The universe can move with the planet. Moving the planet can mean moving the universe without directly moving the universe. Like I said, I can be written to pick up a pencil and cause the universe to recede.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Agreed on the planet not even lasting one attosecond - it's actually been a point that I've made in the past.

In short, it's an amazing durability feat from Hype, less so as a strength feat, any more so than me standing between two trucks being pushed by the Hulk/Sentry is a strength feat.

Note that nowhere in the comic does it say the planets were stopped, btw . So in your example with Abom/Hulk, if you don't actually stop the trucks.....

The book says they he held them apart. Logically, one would conclude that the stressing of that point indicates that the planets were held apart for a perceptable amount of time. Plus, the relevant definition of "hold" is to "stop the movement or progress of".

Originally posted by h1a8
Assuming that he held them apart of a particular amount of time then you are still speculating the force that was pushing them. The planet is in space and not directly connected to any other mass in that universe. It could be just enough force to allow Hyperion to momentarily hold the planets before the planets gave in.

The universe can move with the planet. Moving the planet can mean moving the universe without directly moving the universe. Like I said, I can be written to pick up a pencil and cause the universe to recede.

But the book specifically treats each Earth as a fixed part of it's respective universe, hence the island analogy given by Reid. It is for this reason that once the Earths make contact, both universes are destroyed due to colliding with universe level force.