Who is more powerful than the 616 Infinity Gauntlet?

Originally posted by abhilegend
I said "skill" is not the criteria of power level of hosts as you insisted. Why don't you prove that skill is still the criteria as you said?

We're going to the Battlezone to take the main discussion points of this thread and have our perspectives on those judged and a winner declared on them.

Why would you want to avoid having a judgement on what we actually discussed? 😖hifty:

If you're not conceding on those other factors then they should be up for being judged as well. That is unless you are conceding on those other factors? 😄

Originally posted by abhilegend
There is no requirement of targeting the universe to use its full power.

Are you trying to tell the forum that the same level and scale of energy is involved whether youre destroying one person or that person and the universe theyre in?😕

GET THE EFF OUTTA HERE 😆

Originally posted by abhilegend
I outright showed that IG redirected the energy, not manipulated UN (which is outright fanfiction as UN has never been manipulated).

Nope. As the scan showed Quasar pressed the button and instead of the UN firing at Magus it fired back at him.

Firing back at the user is a canon possible outcome of using the UN anyway.

The scene doesn't give us a conclusive visual depiction or narrative description on how the energies were re-directed.

Did Magus affect the device or did he address the energies directly? Who knows? 😕

All we know is that the energies were re-directed and the handbook gives an account of all we were shown, that Magus re-directed the energies.

However given the target was solely Magus, the power involved wasnt on the same scale as some other canon applications of the UN. Therefore we cannot look at the best UN feat and be like "WHOA the IG is therefore capable of this because the UN is capable of that!"

Such ABC logic wont cut it here Abigail. You will do better.

Battlezone MON 11th JAN 😮‍💨

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
We're going to the Battlezone to take the main discussion points of this thread and have our perspectives on those judged and a winner declared on them.

Why would you want to avoid having a judgement on what we actually discussed? 😖hifty:

If you're not conceding on those other factors then they should be up for being judged as well. That is unless you are conceding on those other factors? 😄

I just wanna quote this as i realise my last post will provide you with the opportunity to deflect and avoid this point 🙂

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
We're going to the Battlezone to take the main discussion points of this thread and have our perspectives on those judged and a winner declared on them.

Why would you want to avoid having a judgement on what we actually discussed? 😖hifty:

Because I never stated what you are suggesting?

If you're not conceding on those other factors then they should be up for being judged as well. That is unless you are conceding on those other factors? 😄

I'm not even debating on such a topic because I never claimed it. How can I concede on something which I never claimed?

Baboon.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Because I never stated what you are suggesting?

I'm not even debating on such a topic because I never claimed it. How can I concede on something which I never claimed?

Baboon.

You claimed this:

Originally posted by abhilegend
That doesn't explain why the actual Phoenix Force (Without any host) has actually poorer feats than the Phoenix hosts.

The idea that different Phoenix hosts have different power levels is an apocryphal idea with no such indications in the recent comics in last 15 years.

We then debated over various factors which could cause differentiation. You actively put up an opposing argument on other factors over multiple pages, therefore it was a key discussion point in this thread.

We are taking key discussion points to this thread to get a judgement on them.

WHY would you want to avoid a judgement on something you actively debated on?

TELL US! 😱 😂

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

If you're not conceding on those other factors then they should be up for being judged as well. That is unless you are conceding on those other factors? 😄

What is it Abigail? 🙂

Are you conceding on those other factors?

If not then theres no reason for them not to be discussed in the battlezone given that we're going into the battlezone to have a judgement on the matters we cannot agree on in this thread?

😮‍💨

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Are you trying to tell the forum that the same level and scale of energy is involved whether youre destroying one person or that person and the universe theyre in?😕

GET THE EFF OUTTA HERE 😆

You don't know how UN works, do you? Using it even once risks the destruction of the universe.

Nope. As the scan showed Quasar pressed the button and instead of the UN firing at Magus it fired back at him.

Firing back at the user is a canon possible outcome of using the UN anyway.

The scene doesn't give us a conclusive visual depiction or narrative description on how the energies were re-directed.

The handbook confirms it was IG which returned the energies back at quasar. Your fanfiction is irrelevant.

Did Magus affect the device or did he address the energies directly? Who knows? 😕

The handbook knows, he affected the energies.

All we know is that the energies were re-directed and the handbook gives an account of all we were shown, that Magus re-directed the energies.

However given the target was solely Magus, the power involved wasnt on the same scale as some other canon applications of the UN. Therefore we cannot look at the best UN feat and be like "WHOA the IG is therefore capable of this because the UN is capable of that!"

Except UN shattered the multiverse when it was targeted on Abraxas only. Reed didn't target multiverse.

Such ABC logic wont cut it here Abigail. You will do better.

Battlezone MON 11th JAN 😮‍💨

Baboon.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
A battlezone with rules in place overseen and judged by an objective 3rd party? Thats music to my ears 😄

Hmmm. I wonder who would thrive under those conditions? 😖hifty: 😆

The truth shall prevail! 😱

Lets do this 😮‍💨

😉

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
What is it Abigail? 🙂

Are you conceding on those other factors?

If not then theres no reason for them not to be discussed in the battlezone given that we're going into the battlezone to have a judgement on the matters we cannot agree on in this thread?

😮‍💨

I'm not even debating on such a topic because I never claimed it. How can I concede on something which I never claimed?

Originally posted by abhilegend
You are boring me now. Shut up already.

You actively debated against there being multiple factors that could affect a hosts power output.

Therefore multiple factors should be what we discuss in the battezone as we're taking there points we dont agree on, thats the whole point of it.

If you do not want to discuss the other factors you actively debated on then are you coming to my point of view on those factors? That would be the ONLY reason not to take them to the battlezone.

So what is it Abhi? Why cant you be a man on these issues? Where is your integrity?!! 😱 😂

Yawn, its a chore even reading your posts at this point.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yawn, its a chore even reading your posts at this point.

Just answer so we can finalize the battlezone

Do you believe that Phoenix hosts are all equal in how powerful they are?

Yes or no?

That's all it takes. A simple yes or no and then we move forward 😖hifty:

Originally posted by abhilegend
You said that it was due to skill.

Numerous factors are not shown in the comics. Phoenix Force is the same in all hosts.

Its the "willing" to merge which is the deciding factor, not some arbitrary skill.

This suggests its a yes 😉

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Just answer so we can finalize the battlezone

Do you believe that Phoenix hosts are all equal in how powerful they are?

Yes or no?

That's all it takes. A simple yes or no and then we move forward 😖hifty:

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
This suggests its a yes 😉

Originally posted by abhilegend
I already answered it you baboon.
Yes what idiot?

Bro answer THIS question. Forget what you say youve been debating in this thread.

Here and now, do you believe that all Phoenix hosts are equal in power and and ability? 🙂

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Bro answer THIS question. Forget what you say youve been debating in this thread.

Here and now, do you believe that all Phoenix hosts are equal in power and and ability? 🙂

I said "skill" is not the criteria of power level of hosts as you insisted. Why don't you prove that skill is still the criteria as you said?

Pre-existing abilities/skill was one of the factors so thatll be covered anyway.

Nice. We're settled 🙂

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Pre-existing abilities/skill was one of the factors so thatll be covered anyway.

Nice. We're settled 🙂

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
This is the post of mine that triggered the discussion and it is found on page 4:

You replied with this:

So given that the debate on my side and your side was over multiple factors then why would you now try and narrow it down to us only discussing one of those factors I highlighted in the battlezone when we were debating about all factors which could cause differentiation? 😖hifty:

I’ll tell you why fear

You realise that I absolutely whupped you back and forth over that discussion point and you believe the only way you can avoid looking like a complete imbecile is by narrowing things down to one factor where you feel you made the strongest case for yourself

POO-SAY fear 😆

I'm going to assume that you have solid proof that supports the first argument that you cited from a previous post, because I have yet to see a Phoenix host, or the Phoenix Force itself operate above universal levels. Your denial of the idea that the Infinity Gauntlet being above a universal force is about as robust as claiming that the Starbrand is only a planetary level force because it was used as a planetary defense system. We know that the Starbrand is greater than a planetary force though, because an inept user was able to single handily toy with three beings capable of destroying planets.

In retrospect, if I were only permited to operate within the confines of a single room of an 18 story building, while being almighty within that room, does not mean that I am merely room level. It means that I am omnipotent within the borders of that room. This means that a being capable of operating within all of the rooms of that 18 story building could lose to me within the room that I am omnipotent within.

Abhi posted what the Ultimate Nullifier was capable of. Doctor Doom as I mentioned recently wiped out an entire universe with casual ease, and yet the Infinity Gauntlet was able to reverse the effects of the Ultimate Nullifier's attack. It does not matter how the reversal happened what matters is that it was capable of easily stopping a universal plus force. The Ultimate Nullifier as we know is capable of easily wiping out a multiverse, because it too is not limited to operating within the confines of a single universe. Does that make it more powerful than the Infinity Gauntlet? Well yes and no.

Yes because it can wipe out multiple universes because it's effects can reach further as it has no confining borders. No, because within the native universe that the Infinity Gauntlet is permited to operate in, it is a weaker power. This is what you and several others don't seem to understand.

Originally posted by Stoic
I'm going to assume that you have solid proof that supports the first argument that you cited from a previous post, because I have yet to see a Phoenix host, or the Phoenix Force itself operate above universal levels.

First off. Be mindful of tone. You can be passionate about a subject whilst remaining respectful. We're cool and I intend for that to remain being the case.

What wouldve been helpful is if you quoted the relevant post as youve selected a quote that appears completely unrelated to your subsequent commentary.

There are posts within this thread that address your query. Us posters have taken the time out to craft said posts, if its an issue you care about...read

Originally posted by Stoic
Your denial of the idea that the Infinity Gauntlet being above a universal force is about as robust as claiming that the Starbrand is only a planetary level force because it was used as a planetary defense system. We know that the Starbrand is greater than a planetary force though, because an inept user was able to single handily toy with three beings capable of destroying planets.

Its not a denial. Its fact. The IG is by canon a universal only force. What youre failing to do is to acknowledge that since its debut in the initial IG sagas the IGs universal only status was clarified and defined.

Youre looking at the early 90s IG sagas alone where its status was ambiguous and undefined and have that in mind as your evidence for it being beyond universal. Thats illogical. Acknowledge the retcon.

Its stated on panel the IG is universal only and demonstrated on panel that it is universal only by the fact that ist power doesnt extend past its native universe. So to look at early 90s publications for proof against that does not make any sense and is not credible evidence. Accept the new status quo. Its conclusive.

Originally posted by Stoic
In retrospect, if I were only permited to operate within the confines of a single room of an 18 story building, while being almighty within that room, does not mean that I am merely room level. It means that I am omnipotent within the borders of that room. This means that a being capable of operating within all of the rooms of that 18 story building could lose to me within the room that I am omnipotent within.

Except for the fact that powers such as LT, HOTI and the regulator have been stated on panel to be greater within the same "room" demonstrating that within Marvel there are levels of infinity.

Plus if there are beings that demonstrate considerably more power than all of that contained within said room by being able to manipulate all of the matter and energy of said room down to its component atoms without breaking a sweat then the big fish of said small room becomes small fry in comparison.

Originally posted by Stoic
Abhi posted what the Ultimate Nullifier was capable of. Doctor Doom as I mentioned recently wiped out an entire universe with casual ease, and yet the Infinity Gauntlet was able to reverse the effects of the Ultimate Nullifier's attack. It does not matter how the reversal happened what matters is that it was capable of easily stopping a universal plus force. The Ultimate Nullifier as we know is capable of easily wiping out a multiverse, because it too is not limited to operating within the confines of a single universe. Does that make it more powerful than the Infinity Gauntlet? Well yes and no.

How the reversal happened is completely relevant

What is the greater feat

a)Iron Man firing a repulsor ray at Vulcan and Vulcan manipulating the energy blast and bending that energy so it fires back at Iron Man

b) Vulcan short circuiting Iron Mans suit with an electric blast causing it to malfunction so when Iron Man attempts to shoot a repulsor ray instead he fires at himself

Same outcome, two entirely differently levels of power and involvement.

The UN attack was re-directed. The specifics were unclear, its an inconclusive feat.

What is conclusive is that the UN doesnt output the same universal destroying power with every application of its power. It is all down to what the user wants destroyed and what is targeted.

It is EXPLICITLY stated on panel that Quasar was just targetting Magus. Therefore even if Magus was manipulating the energies of the UN directly the energies involved arent of the same power and scale as other occasions where the UN has instead been applied to destroy much bigger targets such as a universe or multiverse.

So you cant say oh Magus re-directed the UN's attack, the UN has reset a multiverse before, therefore the IGs power is beyond universal.

Thats the most basic, superficial and illogical evaluation ever. One that does not stand up to scrutiny. Youre better than that. 👆

Originally posted by Stoic
Yes because it can wipe out multiple universes because it's effects can reach further as it has no confining borders. No, because within the native universe that the Infinity Gauntlet is permited to operate in, it is a weaker power. This is what you and several others don't seem to understand.

Bro. Accept the retcon The IG is now just a universal power. It is as per current continuity incapable of operating beyond said limits. Stop dwelling on comic book moments that precede the new definitions and boundaries set for it.

We're cool. Dont let passion for the topic make you talk inappropriately. Lets share knowedge and celebrate this medium