Superboy Prime vs Eternity

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Yeah, To be clarified. SBP has to hit something to change reality. But I don't see this is a problem when he is in a forum fight. I mean he has opponents/targets to punch. And in the latest Death Metal, SBP changed a corrupted Superman's history just by punching him.
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Dark-Nights-Death-Metal-The-Secret-Origin/Full?id=179488#17

I think the key point of Galans post that seems to be getting missed is that its not as if SBP has some retcon punch ability, its that the circumstances were conducive to his punches being able to affect the changes. It wasnt a retcon ability of his, it was either the location he was in or the being he was hitting.

For example in the Infinite Crisis example, SBP was in a location that was a focal point/keystone to DC multidimensional structure, so his powerful (but standard) hits to this structure affected reality. So it was a result of location, not an innate ability SBP has been shown to have.

In the example of SBP fighting the Darkest Knight, the DKs power was actively maintaining changes to reality, so fighting DK disrupted his ability inadvertently. Theres no conclusive evidence be it visually or through written statement or caption that supports the notion of a "retcon punch". So without such evidence its not an ability that can be bandied around and referred to here as an established and officially confirmed part of SBP's powerset at this point.

So lets wait and see what the rest of the event has in store.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I think the key point of Galans post that seems to be getting missed is that its not as if SBP has some retcon punch ability, its that the circumstances were conducive to his punches being able to affect the changes. It wasnt a retcon ability of his, it was either the location he was in or the being he was hitting.

For example in the Infinite Crisis example, SBP was in a location that was a focal point/keystone to DC multidimensional structure, so his powerful (but standard) hits to this structure affected reality. So it was a result of location, not an innate ability SBP has been shown to have.

In the example of SBP fighting the Darkest Knight, the DKs power was actively maintaining changes to reality, so fighting DK disrupted his ability inadvertently. Theres no conclusive evidence be it visually or through written statement or caption that supports the notion of a "retcon punch". So without such evidence its not an ability that can be bandied around and referred to here as an established and officially confirmed part of SBP's powerset at this point.

So lets wait and see what the rest of the event has in store.

Nice post.

That still doesn’t explain why only sbp affected the realities while fighting the corrupted supermen.

Furthermore didnt DK just inhabit the body of an alternate reality Dr Manhattan? So who is to say that said version had the exact same capabilities as the one we're familiar with?

And even if it was the exact same Dr Manhattan, merely possessing his body and powers doesn't make Dr Manhattans feats and showings attributable to DK.

We also cant say DK beat Perpetua, therefore SBP can beat Perpetua and anyone below Perpetua.

That's the most basic ABC logic.

Context has to be considered and taken into account. DK was battle weary, he even mentioned a reluctance to divert energy he had dedicated towards his plans to fighting SBP. How do we know if he did?

We could have had battle weary DK, with an unspecified amount of power diverted elsewhere fighting SBP.

On top of that look how DK was fighting SBP. Simple fisticuffs. What high level cosmic does that? It could be a sign of how battle weary he was.

The battle remains a good showing for SBP. But not enough for people to start elevating to ridiculous levels in the cosmic hierarchy.

The main takeaways are:

There's zero evidence of a "retcon punch"

Nothing to show his powerset is anything more than the standard kryptonian one just supercharged

DKs power status at the time is undetermined

Eternity would not fight SBP as incompetently as DK did. It would be through high level energy, time or reality manipulation.

Eternity is overkill for SBP.

Take it down some notches in the hierarchy and then it makes a worthwhile discussion point

Originally posted by Diesldude
That still doesn’t explain why only sbp affected the realities while fighting the corrupted supermen.

Wasnt DK the key to the changed realities?

Originally posted by Diesldude
Like how you accused me of lowballing the beyonders without providing proof?nyhe biggest lowballers on the planet are the your fellow marveltards. One of them, the low iq trollberto had an epic meltdown before the comic was even released.

So you’re going to go by Galan’s examples, fine I’ll go along with that.

SBP affected realities when he punched The corrupted supermen. If it was because of a special connection, why wasn’t this the case when the other heroes punched the other supermen they were fighting? Of course not. Sbp has that ability to retcon, reshape reality. They don’t have to be physical objects. TBWLs wasn’t physical, but you can see him shatter with the reality he was in when sbp flew into him.

I don’t know what you mean by that last sentence, not sure how that is related to our conversation.

"Kiss" was supposed to be "loss".

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Wasnt DK the key to the changed realities?

Maybe maybe not, but sbp was affecting realities of the corrupted supermen prior to attacking DK.

Only SPB was able to affect reality. First by attacking the corrupted supermen then, flying through space to get to DK and then attacking DK himself.

Other heroes attacked the corrupted supermen but nothing happened

Heck perpetua attacked DK and couldn’t damage him like sbp did nor did it impact or recreate realities like when SBP was able to do.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Furthermore didnt DK just inhabit the body of an alternate reality Dr Manhattan? So who is to say that said version had the exact same capabilities as the one we're familiar with?

And even if it was the exact same Dr Manhattan, merely possessing his body and powers doesn't make Dr Manhattans feats and showings attributable to DK.

We also cant say DK beat Perpetua, therefore SBP can beat Perpetua and anyone below Perpetua.

That's the most basic ABC logic.

Context has to be considered and taken into account. DK was battle weary, he even mentioned a reluctance to divert energy he had dedicated towards his plans to fighting SBP. How do we know if he did?

We could have had battle weary DK, with an unspecified amount of power diverted elsewhere fighting SBP.

On top of that look how DK was fighting SBP. Simple fisticuffs. What high level cosmic does that? It could be a sign of how battle weary he was.

The battle remains a good showing for SBP. But not enough for people to start elevating to ridiculous levels in the cosmic hierarchy.

The main takeaways are:

There's zero evidence of a "retcon punch"

Nothing to show his powerset is anything more than the standard kryptonian one just supercharged

DKs power status at the time is undetermined

Eternity would not fight SBP as incompetently as DK did. It would be through high level energy, time or reality manipulation.

Eternity is overkill for SBP.

Take it down some notches in the hierarchy and then it makes a worthwhile discussion point

perpetua is literally the most feared out of the entire omniverse according the snyder, she's the creator of dc main multiverse superstructure including the higher realms that infinitely dwarf the infinite third dimensional multiverse, she created 3 sons by tearing pieces from the overvoid

she resides in the highest dimension of dc reality that is the sixth, a realm beyond space time and source wall itself, a realm beyond imagination that is the fifth dimension. she held all dc main multiverse existence at her palm, a multiverse with infinite timelines and 4 layers of of existence which include the Nil

world forger alone was capable of creating 2 multiverses with his hammer and anvil

darkest knight absorbed the power of dark multiverse doctor manhattan, he was the one with the entire dark multiverse and created his own multiverse too

his fight with perpetua was literally noticed by chronicler from the overvoid, and said their fight was the collapsing the entire multiversal system

sbp himself destroyed three multiverses in death metal by shattering the antenna

eternity can't even lick perpetua's boots

what makes you think he has any chance against prime here

Where was SBP affecting realities of the corrupted Supermen? Be cool to see this scene as it could be ambiguous and down to how you've interpreted it.

Also, Perpetua was fighting DK at the height of his power when he was fresh. The circumstances arent comparable. It was an extended battle so it definitely wasnt easy for him.

Wasnt it after said that battle that he then diverted his power towards shaping reality as per his plans?

So SBP faced a battle weary DK who also had power diverted towards altering reality and theres no evidence that he re-diverted said power to deal with SBP.

As i said before the simple manner in which he engaged SBP as opposed to doing so in a manner befitting of a high level cosmic could be a sign that he was nowhere near full capacity.

Regardless there are too many variables and unknowns for basic ABC logic to be used here.

SBP is not conclusively greater than DK, Perpetua or even Dr Manhattan. This battle was not conclusive evidence of that.

All we know for sure is that he took on a battle weary DK of unknown capacity and won as far as we know. Nice feat, but lets wait to see what the next issue reveals 👆

you say that like eternity can even stand up to darkest knight, doctor manhattan or perpetua

what showing suggest that?

if this is multi-eternity against sbp then sure multi-eternity would win, but it's not multi-eternity here

Originally posted by MrMind
perpetua is literally the most feared out of the entire omniverse according the snyder, she's the creator of dc main multiverse superstructure including the higher realms that infinitely dwarf the infinite third dimensional multiverse, she created 3 sons by tearing pieces from the overvoid

she resides in the highest dimension of dc reality that is the sixth, a realm beyond space time and source wall itself, a realm beyond imagination that is the fifth dimension. she held all dc main multiverse existence at her palm, a multiverse with infinite timelines and 4 layers of of existence which include the Nil

world forger alone was capable of creating 2 multiverses with his hammer and anvil

darkest knight absorbed the power of dark multiverse doctor manhattan, he was the one with the entire dark multiverse and created his own multiverse too

his fight with perpetua was literally noticed by chronicler from the overvoid, and said their fight was the collapsing the entire multiversal system

sbp himself destroyed three multiverses in death metal by shattering the antenna

eternity can't even lick perpetua's boots

what makes you think he has any chance against prime here

Its ABC logic youre using here.

SBP never fought a fresh DK.

Only Perpetua did. Youve just highlighted how massively powerful she is and it clearly wasnt easy for DK as the battle lasted multiple issues.

You have no idea of the capacity of the DK he fought. So its inconclusive.

You cant say DK beat Perpetua, Perpetuas capable of this. SBP beat DK so hes this great. Thats a superficial analysis that just doesnt stand up to scrutiny. You need to put things into perspective and consider context when judging these things.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Where was SBP affecting realities of the corrupted Supermen? Be cool to see this scene as it could be ambiguous and down to how you've interpreted it.

Also, Perpetua was fighting DK at the height of his power when he was fresh. The circumstances arent comparable. It was an extended battle so it definitely wasnt easy for him.

Wasnt it after said that battle that he then diverted his power towards shaping reality as per his plans?

So SBP faced a battle weary DK who also had power diverted towards altering reality and theres no evidence that he re-diverted said power to deal with SBP.

As i said before the simple manner in which he engaged SBP as opposed to doing so in a manner befitting of a high level cosmic could be a sign that he was nowhere near full capacity.

Regardless there are too many variables and unknowns for basic ABC logic to be used here.

SBP is not conclusively greater than DK, Perpetua or even Dr Manhattan. This battle was not conclusive evidence of that.

All we know for sure is that he took on a battle weary DK of unknown capacity and won as far as we know. Nice feat, but lets wait to see what the next issue reveals 👆

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Its ABC logic youre using here.

SBP never fought a fresh DK.

Only Perpetua did. Youve just highlighted how massively powerful she is and it clearly wasnt easy for DK as the battle lasted multiple issues.

You have no idea of the capacity of the DK he fought. So its inconclusive.

You cant say DK beat Perpetua, Perpetuas capable of this. SBP beat DK so hes this great. Thats a superficial analysis that just doesnt stand up to scrutiny. You need to put things into perspective and consider context when judging these things.

not the first time sbp perform multiversal feats in death metal though

in death metal 4 he shattered the antenna and undid three worlds/multiverse (dark multiverse version of infinite crisis, final crisis and crisis on infinite earth)

Originally posted by MrMind
not the first time sbp perform multiversal feats in death metal though

in death metal 4 he shattered the antenna and undid three worlds/multiverse (dark multiverse version of infinite crisis, final crisis and crisis on infinite earth)

Thats indirectly as a result of destroying a device. He didnt directly destroy anything more than that. Any resultant destruction was a knock on effect that you cant attribute to his ability.

I think we will get a clearer picture after death metal 7

sbp fight with dk could very well be taking place after death metal 7

there's a very high possibility that sbp did destroy dk's dark multiverse (which is only 52)

there's also a chance it was a illusion created by dk to get prime out of sight by giving him earth prime

and dk did confirm he can't beat prime in that issue, so that's worth something to consider

Originally posted by MrMind
I think we will get a clearer picture after death metal 7

sbp fight with dk could very well be taking place after death metal 7

there's a very high possibility that sbp did destroy dk's dark multiverse (which is only 52)

there's also a chance it was a illusion created by dk to get prime out of sight by giving him earth prime

and dk did confirm he can't beat prime in that issue, so that's worth something to consider

Im getting illusion vibes.

I wouldnt be surprised if DK occupied SBP with an illusion/false reality to take him off the board so he can go back to his plans as he already said he didnt want to divert the energy necessary to kill SBP.

Either way at this point we know that DK isnt facing a fresh DK and theres no telling how much capacity he has after defeating Perpetua and trying to create a new multiverse.

Its best to wait till the next issue. 😉

Even if SBP is the only one who can cause the changes in reality, that does discount the need for special for circumstances. I've always seen it as the combination of circumstances and the force of his punches.

Originally posted by Diesldude
it was in the comic that they linked you to earlier today. Right before the big fight with DK.

Theres nothing explicit in that scene that gives much guidance on how that scene is to be interpreted. But based on DKs hinted plan to alter the 52 with a dark shadow version, I would say that killing this dark/evil version of Superman that DK had lined up for that reality, had the knock-on effect of enabling a good archetype to be instated instead.

Thats why SBP then came up with the plan to kill DK as viewing that change made him think killing the source of this corruption to the 52 would allow a similar change on a multiversal scale. So the good/anti-crisis versions of the 52 would be the ones cemented into a permanent new multiverse.

So it was again a knock-on effect of killing that dark archetype, whilst DC reality is in a turbulent/transitional state.

Again, the scene was ambiguous and open to interpretation, so im not going to say my interpretation is fact, yours has just as much value as mine at this stage with the limited info we've been given.
Lets wait and see what happens in the next issue.

Either way, theres zero conclusive evidence of a retcon punch, or innate reality altering ability. Its more the things he's hitting have been connected to the makeup of reality.

Originally posted by AlbertoJohnAvil
The same BWL who was equal to a weakened Perpetua that needed to be fueled by Crisis Energy to even destroy universes one at a time.

That's laughable by Marvel standards. 😂

Originally posted by TheHulkster
Even if SBP is the only one who can cause the changes in reality, that does discount the need for special for circumstances. I've always seen it as the combination of circumstances and the force of his punches.

but why are we holding sbp in such a high scrutiny

despite being superior to the likes of in betweener and celestials, eternity himself lack solid feats and hold a losing record in his past cosmic battles, and rightfully view as a jobber

ewing gave multi-eternity the utmost respect when he reborn as the eighth multiverse, and put him in the top of marvel cosmic hierarchy, but his feat does not directly transfer to universal eternity