Dr Manhattan and Darkest Night vs. Beyonder and Thanos

Originally posted by Galan007
But that's not the point.

In that scene there was literally zero collateral damage to Owen's apartment, despite the blast itself being powerful enough to destroy several billion entire dimensions:

So only trying to gauge the blast's potency based on the amount of collateral damage it caused would be faulty in that instance.

Here is another example...

A blast from Galactus actually harmed Thanos to an extent, despite ALL the defensive shielding of his ship being in place:

...But the blast only caused very minor collateral damage to their surroundings(a small circular crater beneath Thanos, is all.)

Yet in the very same series, Thanos himself(without the aid of his ship's shielding) outright tanked the close-range planetary destruction of a gas giant without skipping a beat:

So despite a lack of collateral damage in the first scene, we can still infer that the potency of Galactus's blast would have been =/> the explosion of the gas giant that Thanos tanked a few issues later.

tl;dr
Collateral damage is not always a reliable measuring stick when it comes to gauging the potency of energy attacks and such. Makes perfect sense that higher-end reality/energy manipulators would be able to concentrate and contain their attacks so that they still retain full potency, without causing any unwanted 'bleed-over' to their surroundings(ie. collateral damage.)

Originally posted by Galan007
Superman told Jon about all of his previous encounters with Mxy in AC #975 (2017):

And as you can see in the above artwork, his stories included their very first encounter in Superman v1 #30 (1944):

So even before the "everything is canon" concept that Death Metal is going to introduce, Superman still evidently had full knowledge of his Golden Age past.

Originally posted by JBL
I understand that, but molecule man and beyonder are two very powerful beings that are in full control of their powers, that seemed like a focused blast that was only directed at the beyonder, the beyonder himself felt the full force of that blast that's why he knew what that blast could have destroyed. By the room, the city,and not even that Galaxy being affected shows that that blast was only directed at the beyonder who felt the full brunt of that attack. The collateral damage was given by the beyonder who knew how powerful that Blast was.

And this perfectly conveys the fact that collateral damage in and of itself(or lack thereof) isn't the end-all/be-all measuring stick when it comes to gauging the strength or potency behind an attack... Especially when a high-end matter/reality manipulator is the one projecting it.

Owen hits Beyonder with a blast that could have wiped out several billion entire dimensions, yet caused no damage at all to the room they were standing in. Despite the blast itself containing massive attack potency, there was literally no collateral damage whatsoever.

Originally posted by Astner
That makes no sense.

Originally posted by Galan007
Indeed.

And this perfectly conveys the fact that collateral damage in and of itself(or lack thereof) isn't the end-all/be-all measuring stick when it comes to gauging the strength or potency behind an attack... Especially when a high-end matter/reality manipulator is the one projecting it.

Owen hits Beyonder with a blast that could have wiped out several billion entire dimensions, yet caused no damage at all to the room they were standing in. Despite the blast itself containing massive attack potency, there was literally no collateral damage whatsoever.

Which means that if it wasn't concentrated, it would have destroyed billions of dimensions. Perpetua taxed herself destroying a single universe and had to recharge afterwards. Theres a huge power difference here. Then, planets were damaging her.

I'm not discussing Perpetua's standing relative to the others. I am just helping explain why collateral damage isn't always an accurate way of approximating the power of an attack.

As the Owen/Beyonder and Galactus/Thanos scenes illustrate: a lack of collateral damage resulting from an attack doesn't automatically mean said attack wasn't immensely powerful.

Originally posted by Galan007
I'm not discussing Perpetua's standing relative to the others. I am just helping explain why collateral damage isn't always an accurate way of approximating the power of an attack.

As the Owen/Beyonder and Galactus/Thanos scenes illustrate: a lack of collateral damage resulting from an attack doesn't automatically mean said attack wasn't immensely powerful.

In fact the latter is supported by the claim that only a few trillion multiverses have come to an end. If it was truly infinite you'd expect an infinite multiverses to have come to an end

Dc has infinite multiverses, read the scans man its right there on the fcking panel, it’s been posted 20 times. this is what happens when you don’t read dc. You don’t know what you are talking about.
https://ibb.co/82T7s3k
https://ibb.co/6wKB30J

Chronicler has a book of trillion multiverses coming to an end. Why do you think chronicler has access to info of all the multiverses? Why can’t there be others like him to also have access to different multiverses?

But it's made clear that they're Non-DC stories, this was implied by the Empty Hand and more recently the Chronicler, who had seen nothing like the DC Multiverse.

How stupid is this comment, dc has an omniverse, everything within this omniverse is part of dc, whether is dc comics, cartoon, tv show, movies etc
This tity titans clip explain dc perfectly, it flows through all medium, there is no rules and boundaries to this game
YouTube video

Why do you continue to repeat this point when I already debunked it? They were not talking about spatio-temporal dimensions they were talking about universes.

Blah blah blah, marvel dimensions are only geometric universes

Dc on the other hand define their upper dimension infinitely dwarfs their lower ones. Where higher dimension beings view the previous one as mere fictions.

When it comes to the actual spatio-temporal dimensions and their extensions (imagination and unimagination) the 6th is the highest.

How many times do I have to say this, they are planes of existences, dc has 6 level planes of existences, marvel only has three

wildstorm alone which is only part of dc multiverse has 198833 dimensional space

anything sphere of the gods and above are platonic archetypal realms

Yes, that's the point of Hypertime, to tie all the Crises together. But that doesn't mean that current incarnation of Superman is the same as the Golden Age version of Superman. The only Superman who actually survived a Crisis was Superboy Prime.

Nope, that’s literally what’s happening

Say it with me, SAME CHARACTER

DC Comics doesn't have any Celestials. You had the Titans that resided in five-dimensional space, and then you had the Monitor, the Anti-Monitor, and the World Forger in six-dimensional space, the latter of which was responsible for the creation of the 4-dimensional DC Multiverse.

This may seem impressive and all but the Beyonder came from a realm that had infinite dimensions, which makes it far more complex in terms of degrees of freedom than anything established in DC comics be it universe or multiverse.

Why so bias? Did they specify marvel’s dimension is temporal-spatial, or is it simply geometrical?

Pre-retcon Beyonder is in concept very similar to the Overvoid. They're both the incarnation of the totality outside the multiverse, and they were both intrigued by the Multiverse. The difference is that the Overvoid has its degrees of freedom limited to six dimensions.

This is so retarded, overvoid is the paper where comics draw on, it was literally stated overvoid is outside of sixth dimension, why would it’s degrees of freedom limited to six dimensions.

Marvel is 3-d, accept it and move on, beyond realm only view the marvel universe/multiverse as droplet of water, which coincide with the size of sphere of gods or nil, unless you can prove it in size beyond realm is bigger than nil (which view the 3-d dc multiverse as germ world), concede.

give me evidence of marvel dimensions are planes of existence each infinitely dwarf the previous ones, marvel has no ****ing definition of how their dimensions operate. It’s literally just universes

Because that’s the only way dimension discussion has any value

You're not grasping the scale here. It doesn't matter how many rooms a mansion has, it's always going to be smaller than the planet it's placed on.

I don’t think you understand, third dimension universes are size of bubbles on the planet of new genesis. YOU ARE NOT GRASPING ANY SCALE.

Unlike you I'm not defending Marvel because I'm a fanboy, I'm defending it because it's the correct answer based on what we see in the comics.

Based on your interpretation of comics, which is wrong.

Originally posted by MrMind
When it comes to the actual spatio-temporal dimensions and their extensions (imagination and unimagination) the 6th is the highest.

How many times do I have to say this, they are planes of existences, dc has 6 level planes of existences, marvel only has three

So just because Marvel defined the Beyond Realm as infini-dimensional back in the SWII days, that doesn't mean it scales infinitely beyond the 4th, 5th, or 6th dimensions in DC. Two different companies; two vastly different cosmologies.

Originally posted by Juntai
I still have to read more to catch up to where this is, but this is wrong. Post Crisis Superman and Pre Crisis Superman are the same. He has mentioned events from COIE and events from many years before that time that belonged to Silver Age Superman. Golden Age is a different Superman altogether though. All 3 were from before Crisis and after.

Originally posted by Galan007
Superman told Jon about all of his previous encounters with Mxy in AC #975 (2017):

And as you can see in the above artwork, his stories included their very first encounter in Superman v1 #30 (1944):

So even before the "everything is canon" concept that Death Metal is going to introduce, Superman still evidently had full knowledge of his Golden Age past.

Originally posted by Astner
That makes no sense.

He's also mentioned memories from Silver Age books, his own and JLA as well.

The Infinite Crisis undid the knot in the timeline caused by COIE and everything in history became canon.

Flashpoint was a type of similar knot, until Convergence and Rebirth unravelled it.

Originally posted by Galan007
I'm not discussing Perpetua's standing relative to the others. I am just helping explain why collateral damage isn't always an accurate way of approximating the power of an attack.

As the Owen/Beyonder and Galactus/Thanos scenes illustrate: a lack of collateral damage resulting from an attack doesn't automatically mean said attack wasn't immensely powerful.

In the Beyonder vs Molecule Man instance, the Beyonder appears to have absorbed the force of the blast. That's the only way to make sense of the scene.

sarkest knight looks like chaos king lol

Most Batman related characters have bland designs and only get the past due to Nostalgia of Batman himself. They look shitty, act shitty and exist solely for wanking

I might be forgetting a couple of designs but the ones that stand out in quality are Two-Face and Joker and while they look good those guys are barely characters.

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, this is how I've always seen it. Where DC's dimensional scaling is concerned, it's less about the numerical value of the dimension, and more about what that dimension represents within continuity.

So just because Marvel defined the Beyond Realm as infini-dimensional back in the SWII days, that doesn't mean it scales infinitely beyond the 4th, 5th, or 6th dimensions in DC. Two different companies; two vastly different cosmologies.

I can't see how that knowledge gives anyone the go ahead to claim that the characters are more or less powerful than other near omnipotent characters. I can't see Superboy doing that to the Living Tribunal who could just snap his fingers and BFR Superboy Prime to a null dimension with no walls in sight. Just blank space.

All of the scans that Mr. Mind used can not explain away the sad performance that the Batman Who Laughs had against Superboy Prime. I mean, why did that even ever turn into a fist fight? It was pretty underwhelming to say the least. Snyder isn't very good, and the only redeeming quality backing the tepid plot was the artwork.

I'm far from convinced that Superboy Prime would ever be able to defeat TOAA, IG Thanos, Mxy, Doctor M, Beyonder, or even an adult Franklin Richards. However he beat the mess out of BWL which lowered his stock significantly.

Team 2 gets my vote for those reasons.

SBP was BFRd to a null zone with no walls before. The Phantom Zone.

Broke out of it.

Same with the Speed Force.

Yeah, because fights in Marvel never devolve into simple laser fights. Lol

Originally posted by Stoic
I can't see how that knowledge gives anyone the go ahead to claim that the characters are more or less powerful than other near omnipotent characters. I can't see Superboy doing that to the Living Tribunal who could just snap his fingers and BFR Superboy Prime to a null dimension with no walls in sight. Just blank space.

All of the scans that Mr. Mind used can not explain away the sad performance that the Batman Who Laughs had against Superboy Prime. I mean, why did that even ever turn into a fist fight? It was pretty underwhelming to say the least. Snyder isn't very good, and the only redeeming quality backing the tepid plot was the artwork.

I'm far from convinced that Superboy Prime would ever be able to defeat TOAA, IG Thanos, Mxy, Doctor M, Beyonder, or even an adult Franklin Richards. However he beat the mess out of BWL which lowered his stock significantly.

Team 2 gets my vote for those reasons.

DC most definitely abuses this more because they put their heroes (esp Superman) on a pedestal. It’s the same reason DK supposedly won’t even blink the heroes out of existence (though I actually think he can’t because he is a nightmare, if they die, he dies)

That said, you shouldn’t just disregard the showings. Prime has a history of beating beings that are strong. Let’s not forget when he was a Superman Prime, a monitor was still somewhat scared of him, Mxy was also scared of him, he survived a universal explosion point blanks. He was definitely a universal being with a limited amp.

Him fighting (he still lost) DK isn’t “that” far fetched considering some of his other high end feats

Originally posted by Astner
[B]Yes, but you still have the Beyonder's fight against Molecule Man where the multiverse was destroyed to fall back on. You don't have anything like that for Perpetua or the Darkest Knight.

Multiverse was never destroyed by Molecule Man and Beyonder's fight, it was threatened to be destroyed just like Perpetua and Darkest Knight did.

https://tinyurl.com/y94e87ew
https://tinyurl.com/y88mhyhf

Heck, darkest knight destroyed hypertime by just his presence and even got pax dei give up.

https://tinyurl.com/y9s9kcrf

What's more impressive is that the fight got attention of overvoid itself.

From the battle between perpetua and Dk, it looks like they were shoving planets in each other’s face but the battle was in every reality and dimension.