Snoke vs. Count Dooku

Originally posted by Sheev
His genetic material being used in some capacity doesn't undo the fact that the genetic components were obviously mutated to a very high degree, because the cloners were "trying ANYTHING" (to the point where they created "unnatural ABOMINATIONS"😉 to make a body for Sidious. And that's the point- maybe Snoke was just too far gone genetically to be used as a vessel.

Rey was the offspring of an otherwise perfect clone- Sidious's son. So she was born with those perfect genetic markers in place. Snoke was not.

So I think it is a logical conclusion. But I still think Snoke couldn't be used because ROS Sidious was more powerful then he was in ROTJ. 😛

And that's fine.

I'm not saying that the genetics option is the only option. Just saying that it IS an option. Because of the lack of info it comes down to how you choose interpret the material we have been given.

Fair enough. 👆

Originally posted by Eli Vanto
But I still think Snoke couldn't be used because ROS Sidious was more powerful then he was in ROTJ. 😛

If Snoke was as powerful as ROTJ Palpatine, then hed be just as good a vessel as Rey, if not better given his power would be actualised, wheras with Rey its mostly just potential.

Originally posted by Sheev
His genetic material being used in some capacity doesn't undo the fact that the genetic components were obviously mutated to a very high degree, because the cloners were "trying ANYTHING" (to the point where they created "unnatural ABOMINATIONS"😉 to make a body for Sidious. And that's the point- maybe Snoke was just too far gone genetically to be used as a vessel.

Rey was the offspring of an otherwise perfect clone- Sidious's son. So she was born with those perfect genetic markers in place. Snoke was not.

Firstly I dont even know why a supernatural possession would require genetics.

I was simply trying to reconcile why Palpatine did not possess any of the Skywalker. It could simply be because theyd reject him.

But as far as genetics go, both Snoke and Rey share DNA with Palpatine. But neither is a 100% perfect clone.

Mutations shouldnt make a difference as long as a significant amount of Palpatines DNA is still there, like it is in Rey.

For a guy whose username, icon, and signature are Sheev, this fella sure seems reticent to accept the fact that Snoke is weaker than Sheev. mmm

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Firstly I dont even know why a supernatural possession would require genetics.

I was simply trying to reconcile why Palpatine did not possess any of the Skywalker. It could simply be because theyd reject him.

But as far as genetics go, both Snoke and Rey share DNA with Palpatine. But neither is a 100% perfect clone.

Mutations shouldnt make a difference as long as a significant amount of Palpatines DNA is still there, like it is in Rey.

Pretty obvious why Snoke's inferior genetics and being deemed an "UNNATURAL ABOMINATION" who was made when the cloners were simply "TRYING ANYTHING" to make a body for Sidious, could have rendered him obsolete for the task.

Because yeah, if the optimal "Sidious genetics" WEREN'T needed for him to body hop, then he would have just used Kylo. But if optimal genetics WERE needed in a host (even a temp host) then I could see why a creature like Snoke might not have been usable.

Its just one possibility.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
For a guy whose username, icon, and signature are Sheev, this fella sure seems reticent to accept the fact that Snoke is weaker than Sheev. mmm

I just see both sides to the argument is all. 🙂

Originally posted by Sheev
Sheev is still God.

I just see both sides to the argument is all. 🙂

Not all sides in an argument are equal, though.

If flat-earthers and round-earthers have an argument, reasonableness and probability aren't split evenly between both opponents.

Parroting an idea as "possible!" is irrelevant and useless since no one here has disputed the fact that the idea is possible. What's being discussed is which idea is better, more possible, more plausible, more reasonable, better supported.

As demonstrated, the idea endorsed by myself, Dominis, Azronger, Darth_Thor, and now accepted by XPrimeX is the better idea. It doesn't mean your idea isn't possible. It means your idea isn't as good.

Snoke is much too weak to handle Sheev's potency. 🙂

Originally posted by Sheev
Rey WAS perfect. Snoke was not.

Pretty obvious why Snoke's inferior genetics and being deemed an "UNNATURAL ABOMINATION" who was made when the cloners were simply "TRYING ANYTHING" to make a body for Sidious, could have rendered him obsolete for the task.

Well given Palpatine transferred his essence to a broken clone, I think theres nothing at all to back that idea.

Originally posted by Sheev

Because yeah, if the optimal "Sidious genetics" WEREN'T needed for him to body hop, then he would have just used Kylo. But if optimal genetics WERE needed in a host (even a temp host) then I could see why a creature like Snoke might not have been usable.

Its just one possibility.

Kylo had no genetic make up in common with Sheev at all. So saying OPTIMAL genetics were needed based on that is honestly a real stretch.

Genetics being a factor at all would be strange for a supernatural possession. Its more likely what Dominis says, that Sheev was looking for a powerful enough vessel, which is what the novel indicates Rey was.

Im guessing The Three Skywalkers probably would have resisted any possession. However with Snoke theres really no excuse at all because:

1) He likely had a good share of Sheevs genetic make up.

2) He was designed to be Sheevs lackey, so would not have resisted a possession.

So The only logical explanation for not using Snoke as a vessel is that he wasnt powerful enough a vessel for Sheev.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Not all sides in an argument are equal, though.

If flat-earthers and round-earthers have an argument, reasonableness and probability aren't split evenly between both opponents.

Parroting an idea as "possible!" is irrelevant and useless since no one here has disputed the fact that the idea is possible. What's being discussed is which idea is better, more possible, more plausible, more reasonable, better supported.

As demonstrated, the idea endorsed by myself, Dominis, Azronger, Darth_Thor, and now accepted by XPrimeX is the better idea. It doesn't mean your idea isn't possible. It means your idea isn't as good.

Snoke is much too weak to handle Sheev's potency. 🙂

But if you're saying that the genetic argument is indeed a possibility (even if you disagree with it), then we seem to agree.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well given Palpatine transferred his essence to a broken clone, I think theres nothing at all to back that idea.

Kylo had no genetic make up in common with Sheev at all. So saying OPTIMAL genetics were needed based on that is honestly a real stretch.

Genetics being a factor at all would be strange for a supernatural possession. Its more likely what Dominis says, that Sheev was looking for a powerful enough vessel, which is what the novel indicates Rey was.

Im guessing The Three Skywalkers probably would have resisted any possession. However with Snoke theres really no excuse at all because:

1) He likely had a good share of Sheevs genetic make up.

2) He was designed to be Sheevs lackey, so would not have resisted a possession.

So The only logical explanation for not using Snoke as a vessel is that he wasnt powerful enough a vessel for Sheev.

Originally posted by Eli Vanto
You can't say it's the only explanation DT. But it's still a good explanation.

It's, at a bare minimum, the better explanation.

This back and forth has been hilarious. haermm

GUYS WHY DONT WE FLOAT UP INTO THE SKY?
Us: Gravity.
Other people: A team of invisible magical unicorns are using their sorcery to keep us tethered to the earth.

You: Huh, those are two interesting explanations. Anything's possible!

Not sure why you directed that at me.

Does it really bother you that much if I think the genetic argument is possible? It's almost like if someone doesn't "endorse" your stance completely, it upsets you. Strange.

So yes, I agree that both arguments are a possibility. Nitpicking the "tiers of possibility" like you're doing isn't something I'm interested in though.

He psychically feeds on people agreeing with him.

Originally posted by Eli Vanto
Not sure why you directed that at me.

Because it beautifully captures your thought process.

Does it really bother you that much if I think the genetic argument is possible? It's almost like if someone doesn't "endorse" your stance completely, it upsets you. Strange.

What's strange is that you think acknowledging the genetic compatibility angle as a possibility would upset me when literally everyone, myself included, repeatedly acknowledged it as a possibility already. mmm

So yes, I agree that both arguments are a possibility. Nitpicking the "tiers of possibility" like you're doing isn't something I'm interested in though.

This is [or, rather, used to be] a debate forum, my son. Gathering facts and extrapolating theories from those facts and parsing which theories are more plausible than others is part and parcel of what is [or, rather, once was] done here.

Why didn't Sheev wear Snoke as a meatsuit?
Us: Snoke was too weak.
You: Or Snoke was too genetically dissimilar.
Us: Sure, but that's not as good of an explanation as ours. Here's why.
You: But it's a possibility.
Us: Sure, but our possibility is more probable. Here's why.
You: But it's a possibility.
Us: Right, but not all possibilities are equally plausible.
You: ..........but it possibleeeee......

Yours is a bizarre methodology for such discussions. mmm

Why does me thinking that it is possible provoke you so?

I already said I don't think it's a prime possibility, but just one possible.....possibility.

So if you do agree that it's possible on some level then we seem to agree. 😄

Originally posted by Eli Vanto
Why does me thinking that it is possible provoke you so?

Meeeeeeeeeeeeeee
What's strange is that you think acknowledging the genetic compatibility angle as a possibility would upset me when literally everyone, myself included, repeatedly acknowledged it as a possibility already. mmm

I suspect that you're not reading my posts... is a possibility. mmm

I already said I don't think it's a prime possibility, but just one possible.....possibility.

You don't think it's a "prime possibility"? mmm

Sounds like you're indulging in the nitpicking of tiers of possibility, which you claimed above you don't do, by distinguishing between possibilities. excellent

So if you do agree that it's possible on some level then we seem to agree. 😄

Since you don't agree that it's a prime possibility, indeed we do. stoned

Maybe go back and reread MY posts because I said as much from the start

Originally posted by Eli Vanto
Well no. I personally think the most likely option is that ROS Sidious was more powerful then ROTJ Sidious to begin with, which is why Snoke couldn't be used as a vessel.

What I'm saying is that xPRIMEx's argument that Snoke did not have a proper genetic structure for Palpatine to transfer his essence into in the first place makes sense.

Originally posted by Eli Vanto
So I think it is a logical conclusion. But I still think Snoke couldn't be used because ROS Sidious was more powerful then he was in ROTJ. 😛

Snoke existed for decades before TROS, so what does TROS Sheev's power have to do with why he never wore Snoke as a meat suit in the decades before TROS? mmm

That all hinges on when Sidious might have gained the power of all the Sith.

I personally think it was after Endor (unless we get a big reveal soon) which is why I think ROS Sidious was more powerful then ROTJ Sidious.