yeah there's not really a compelling reason to say it isn't imo. the watcher discussion and his lack of memories can all be explained away pretty easily i think as effects of the wave/rift. it is said multiple times that it wreaks havoc with space/time. i think 616 ss travelled there and returned but his memories or the event, and even the cause-effect relationships were scrambled as a result of the rift.
and 👆 for deadpool.
Originally posted by leonidas
yeah there's not really a compelling reason to say it isn't imo. the watcher discussion and his lack of memories can all be explained away pretty easily i think as effects of the wave/rift. it is said multiple times that it wreaks havoc with space/time. i think 616 ss travelled there and returned but his memories or the event, and even the cause-effect relationships were scrambled as a result of the rift.and 👆 for deadpool.
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-aXqkhf5Z4p8/VoTU01dh3zI/AAAAAAAAR6o/5PlmDG1n3iQ/s1600-Ic42/RCO013.jpg
I disagree. He alluded to it, but again, the breach is a mix of space/time. There is still no evidence it didn't actually take place and he's not just forgetting. Curious, how do you explain the repeated scene in 112 where where instead of failing, and seeing the watcher, he's met by someone from the other universe?
Originally posted by abhilegend
It isn't really just memories. SS 114 outright stated that its a what If.https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-aXqkhf5Z4p8/VoTU01dh3zI/AAAAAAAAR6o/5PlmDG1n3iQ/s1600-Ic42/RCO013.jpg
i'm also curious--at one point in 115, ss runs into oclin (outrider 111) and comments that oclin is the one responsible for the message that brought ss to this universe.
if this is an alternate ss, as you believe, how did he receive a message that reached 616 ss...? 😕
my thought is this--ss actually breached the swell in 112--everything after that, until quasar and bill find him is an epic mindfukc. i mean 114 is called deja vu. but how did ss return from the other universe that he reached in 112? i don't think he ever did return. and as further support to this, there is this letter from the letter column:
"as of issue 113, norrin radd's soul was effectively assimilated by the black body." (bottom left response)
not sure there can be better support than the editor's own response DURING the arc. clearly ss's what if discussion with the watcher in 114 never 'truly' happened, or rather it was part of the mindfukcery/shattered-soul-journey the ss took in that crazy arc.
Originally posted by leonidas
I disagree. He alluded to it, but again, the breach is a mix of space/time. There is still no evidence it didn't actually take place and he's not just forgetting. Curious, how do you explain the repeated scene in 112 where where instead of failing, and seeing the watcher, he's met by someone from the other universe?
Originally posted by leonidas
i'm also curious--at one point in 115, ss runs into oclin (outrider 111) and comments that oclin is the one responsible for the message that brought ss to this universe.if this is an alternate ss, as you believe, how did he receive a message that reached 616 ss...? 😕
my thought is this--ss actually breached the swell in 112--everything after that, until quasar and bill find him is an epic mindfukc. i mean 114 is called deja vu. but how did ss return from the other universe that he reached in 112? i don't think he ever did return. and as further support to this, there is this letter from the letter column:
"as of issue 113, norrin radd's soul was effectively assimilated by the black body." (bottom left response)
not sure there can be better support than the editor's own response DURING the arc. clearly ss's what if discussion with the watcher in 114 never 'truly' happened, or rather it was part of the mindfukcery/shattered-soul-journey the ss took in that crazy arc.
Spider-Man team up 2 confirmed that Surfer never reached the unilord universe.
but your 'what if surfer' returned to 616 at the end of the arc. does that mean there are now 2 ss's? 😕
and the team-up only confirms he doesn't REMEMBER the trip to the uni-lord's universe. in fact, on the first page it talks about ss trying to track down an elusive memory--the memory of his trip to that universe.
your what if scenario falls apart because BEFORE the what if scenario can be considered, he ALREADY REACHED THE UNI-LORD UNIVERSE in issue 112. if he failed first THEN we saw him reach it....maybe your scenario would work.
you're also simply dismissing the words of an editor who was discussing the story DURING the arc (that letter col was from like 118 or something). that's an impressive level of denial. but i could have perez call you on the phone and tell you it's canon and i doubt it would matter.
lol any theory you have can be written off as scrambled space/time and lost memory. on top of that, it makes no sense given the way events happened, AND and the editor himself confirmed you're wrong in a letter col mid-arc! all that, on top of there being no external support of any kind suggesting the arc is NOT canon, should be more than enough to convince anyone who reads this that the arc is indeed canon.
always fun abhi. i've missed us. 😍
Originally posted by leonidas
but your 'what if surfer' returned to 616 at the end of the arc. does that mean there are now 2 ss's? 😕
In a what If universe? Yes.
and the team-up only confirms he doesn't REMEMBER the trip to the uni-lord's universe. in fact, on the first page it talks about ss trying to track down an elusive memory--the memory of his trip to that universe.
No, that's not what happened.
your what if scenario falls apart because BEFORE the what if scenario can be considered, he ALREADY REACHED THE UNI-LORD UNIVERSE in issue 112. if he failed first THEN we saw him reach it....maybe your scenario would work.
It was revealed in SS 114 that he didn't and was ejected from the rift. He went on back to 616 universe and was there the whole time unilord saga happened. In fact he was with BRB and Quasar when he received the second message.
you're also simply dismissing the words of an editor who was discussing the story DURING the arc (that letter col was from like 118 or something). that's an impressive level of denial. but i could have perez call you on the phone and tell you it's canon and i doubt it would matter.
Of course it would. But you don't have that.
lol any theory you have can be written off as scrambled space/time and lost memory. on top of that, it makes no sense given the way events happened, AND and the editor himself confirmed you're wrong in a letter col mid-arc! all that, on top of there being no external support of any kind suggesting the arc is NOT canon, should be more than enough to convince anyone who reads this that the arc is indeed canon.
always fun abhi. i've missed us. 😍
I'm sorry but that's just a fanfic at this point.
Originally posted by leonidasThis is what I remember seeing.
i'm also curious--at one point in 115, ss runs into oclin (outrider 111) and comments that oclin is the one responsible for the message that brought ss to this universe.if this is an alternate ss, as you believe, how did he receive a message that reached 616 ss...? 😕
my thought is this--ss actually breached the swell in 112--everything after that, until quasar and bill find him is an epic mindfukc. i mean 114 is called deja vu. but how did ss return from the other universe that he reached in 112? i don't think he ever did return. and as further support to this, there is this letter from the letter column:
"as of issue 113, norrin radd's soul was effectively assimilated by the black body." (bottom left response)
not sure there can be better support than the editor's own response DURING the arc. clearly ss's what if discussion with the watcher in 114 never 'truly' happened, or rather it was part of the mindfukcery/shattered-soul-journey the ss took in that crazy arc.
I have support from an editor mid-arc but I’m selling fanfic? Lol. Why does the scene in 114 take precedence over the scene in 112 exactly? I could just do what you’re doing and say he was clearly shown to be in the unilord universe in 112 and plug my ears to everything else I guess but why is 114 more important then the earlier scene in 112...? The one where we never see him return? And what memory is he chasing down at the start of Spider-Man team up?
Originally posted by abhilegend
In a what If universe? Yes.
wait, what? he made it back to the 616 or he didn't. if he was in a what if universe, and returned to the 616, there would be 2 ss's in the 616. so you're saying your fanfic what if ss never made it back? hey it's your fantasy, so make whatever rules you want i guess. /shrug
No, that's not what happened.
lol
It was revealed in SS 114 that he didn't and was ejected from the rift. He went on back to 616 universe and was there the whole time unilord saga happened. In fact he was with BRB and Quasar when he received the second message.
it was shown clearly in 112 that he did make it, and confirmed by an editor that his soul was absorbed by blackbody. and this was IN the arc. so no, there wasn't some weird retcon. you simply dismiss the editor's word?
Of course it would. But you don't have that.
i've got the next best thing--the editor's confirmation. I mean in the letter col response, the editor actually says "TO SUM UP AND KEEP THE CONFUSION TO A MINIMUM...AS OF 113 NORRIN's SOUL WAS ASSIMILATED BY BLACKBODY..." minus a perez phone call, it doesn't get clearer than that.
Originally posted by leonidas
I have support from an editor mid-arc but I’m selling fanfic? Lol. Why does the scene in 114 take precedence over the scene in 112 exactly? I could just do what you’re doing and say he was clearly shown to be in the unilord universe in 112 and plug my ears to everything else I guess but why is 114 more important then the earlier scene in 112...? The one where we never see him return? And what memory is he chasing down at the start of Spider-Man team up?
This is from issue 122.
This is from issue 111.
So Surfer definitely wasn't in the unilord universe in the missing five weeks.
Originally posted by leonidas
wait, what? he made it back to the 616 or he didn't. if he was in a what if universe, and returned to the 616, there would be 2 ss's in the 616. so you're saying your fanfic what if ss never made it back? hey it's your fantasy, so make whatever rules you want i guess. /shrug
The alternate Surfer never returned to 616 universe.
lol
it was shown clearly in 112 that he did make it, and confirmed by an editor that his soul was absorbed by blackbody. and this was IN the arc. so no, there wasn't some weird retcon. you simply dismiss the editor's word?
Yes, issue 114 and 122 confirm that Surfer wasn't in the unilord universe.
i've got the next best thing--the editor's confirmation. I mean in the letter col response, the editor actually says "TO SUM UP AND KEEP THE CONFUSION TO A MINIMUM...AS OF 113 NORRIN's SOUL WAS ASSIMILATED BY BLACKBODY..." minus a perez phone call, it doesn't get clearer than that.
Too bad issue 122 confirm that Surfer was in 616 universe at that time.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Because Surfer was with Quasar and Beta Ray Bill the whole time (Five weeks since the first outrider contacted BRB, Quasar and Silver Surfer).This is from issue 122.
This is from issue 111.
So Surfer definitely wasn't in the unilord universe in the missing five weeks.
i'm very confused. how do those last scans of failing outriders mean he wasn't there? 😕 after the failures you showed, 111 finally found ss and communicated to him....
and again abhi, are you simply discounting the words of the ss EDITOR? if you read the letter cols for 119 and 120, the editor is constantly explaining parts of the story to readers. aside from your misinterpretation, NOWHERE is there any support for this being a what if story.
again: are you simply discounting the editor's comments?
what was the memory ss was chasing in spiderman team up? a team-up written by.....? GEORGE PEREZ! what memory would perez have ss chasing i wonder...?
Originally posted by leonidas
i'm very confused. how do those last scans of failing outriders mean he wasn't there? 😕 after the failures you showed, 111 finally found ss and communicated to him...
That's what the first set of scans show.
and again abhi, are you simply discounting the words of the ss EDITOR? if you read the letter cols for 119 and 120, the editor is constantly explaining parts of the story to readers. aside from your misinterpretation, NOWHERE is there any support for this being a what if story.
Except for the on panel bits.
again: are you simply discounting the editor's comments?
what was the memory ss was chasing in spiderman team up? a team-up written by.....? GEORGE PEREZ! what memory would perez have ss chasing i wonder...?
Not him going into the unilord universe.
lol
1. are you simply dismissing the ss editor's comments that took place IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ARC?
2. what memory do you think perez had ss chasing in the team up?
i mean, how obvious does it need to be?? in 122, ss returns and he and bill and quasar are talking about the outriders, ss says he is having MEMORY TROUBLE! he claims he should remember something, but can't. in team-up, he's continuing to search for the unilord memory. it CAN'T be more clear.
3. outriders failed to reach quasar and bill but one DID reach surfer after the failures. your scans from 111 (a coincidence that it was 111 that reached ss...?) shows....nothing at all. seriously. i have no idea how you're using that as support for your misinterpretation.
clearly you won't consider being wrong for some reason, but hopefully others will look at the arc differently.
