Odin vs Uatu

Originally posted by leonidas
lol

1. are you simply dismissing the ss editor's comments that took place IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ARC?

Yes. Its in contradiction of what's happening in the comic.

2. what memory do you think perez had ss chasing in the team up?

He was looking for the grave of Al Harper. He stated clearly that he didn't go into the unilord universe.

i mean, how obvious does it need to be?? in 122, ss returns and he and bill and quasar are talking about the outriders, ss says he is having MEMORY TROUBLE! he claims he should remember something, but can't. in team-up, he's continuing to search for the unilord memory. it CAN'T be more clear.

Except Surfer didn't return, he was already with Bill and Quasar and an energy bolt struck him.

I mean come on, I already posted the scans. Here it is again, Surfer was checking on a distress signal alongside Bill and Quasar.

https://postimg.cc/V5FqWH3M

3. outriders failed to reach quasar and bill but one DID reach surfer after the failures. your scans from 111 (a coincidence that it was 111 that reached ss...?) shows....nothing at all. seriously. i have no idea how you're using that as support for your misinterpretation.

Did you even read my scans? What does this show you?

https://postimg.cc/V5FqWH3M

clearly you won't consider being wrong for some reason, but hopefully others will look at the arc differently.

Well, I'm not wrong.

not much else to say when you say the actual editor of the book is wrong....

all of the scans you keep posting can (as i've said) be attributed to the fact that the breach screwed with time and space--the rewriting of space/time made them all THINK the events never happened, and basically wiped out the event entirely.

we can clearly infer ss went there for a number of reasons--the retitled prologues/epilogues, the memory he has of it, that is just out of reach for some reason, the editor's OWN WORDS. but again, the breach screwed with his memory when it screwed with time and space.

you're being fooled into thinking the same thing the CHARACTERS are thinking. we the readers are supposed to know differently though.

and clearly at the start of the team up he wasn't trying to remember harper...come on. at the start of the book he didn't even realize where he was.

anyway, this has been fun. if i come across perez's number i'll have him get in touch and we can laugh about this. 👆

Originally posted by leonidas
not much else to say when you say the actual editor of the book is wrong....

😂

Well, it's Norrin Radd, just not 616 version.

all of the scans you keep posting can (as i've said) be attributed to the fact that the breach screwed with time and space--the rewriting of space/time made them all THINK the events never happened, and basically wiped out the event entirely.

In that case too Unilord saga is an alternate universe which never happened to 616 Surfer.

we can clearly infer ss went there for a number of reasons--the retitled prologues/epilogues, the memory he has of it, that is just out of reach for some reason, the editor's OWN WORDS. but again, the breach screwed with his memory when it screwed with time and space.

Or the simple answer, Surfer never reached unilord universe and it was all a What If scenario.

you're being fooled into thinking the same thing the CHARACTERS are thinking. we the readers are supposed to know differently though.

Know what differently though?

and clearly at the start of the team up he wasn't trying to remember harper...come on. at the start of the book he didn't even realize where he was.

That's what he said in the comic, he was going to his grave.

anyway, this has been fun. if i come across perez's number i'll have him get in touch and we can laugh about this. 👆

Sure thing.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes. Its in contradiction of what's happening in the comic.

He was looking for the grave of Al Harper. He stated clearly that he didn't go into the unilord universe.

Except Surfer didn't return, he was already with Bill and Quasar and an energy bolt struck him.

I mean come on, I already posted the scans. Here it is again, Surfer was checking on a distress signal alongside Bill and Quasar.

https://postimg.cc/V5FqWH3M

Did you even read my scans? What does this show you?

https://postimg.cc/V5FqWH3M

Well, I'm not wrong.

final take on this idiotic arc.

we see the 616 ss make it through the rift in 112. we know it's the real ss because, well, making it through the rift happened first, we have the editor confirming it (and no, he wouldn't be talking about an alternate ss, really abhi??):

https://imgur.com/a/2rxw3gw

he retains a just-out-of-reach memory of all the events:

https://imgur.com/a/Ibv8cvP

and well, common sense says it's dumb to think perez wrote a 12 issue "what if" arc....the arc is definitely confusing and doesn't really fit in a tidy box like you're trying to force it to.

but what is also clear is that there were 2 ss's at some point. what i believe happened is this--the rift rips apart spacetime and within the rift realities crash into each other. so, after 616 ss makes it through, a second reality is created--a "what if" reality--where he did NOT make it. both us and ss actually SEE the alternate reality where he FAILED to make it through right here:

https://imgur.com/a/2pcWXgq

he sees himself and bill and quasar (bottom right) at quasar's station as he is RETURNING through the rift.

we can also surmise the unilord ss was the TRUE ss, because just prior to exiting the rift he has this talk with skooka and the reference the ss's REAL universe:

https://imgur.com/a/BfAjYsf

then of course in the second scan, we see the ss (or his soul) emerge from the rift, and THAT is what the 'bolt of silver fire' is. here is he talking about being born and dying in a 'blast of light':

https://imgur.com/a/8Z9rI9M

if we move to your scan, we see the 2 ss's merge (the 2 realities merge and, according to skooka, a new 'universe' is created) in your scan when the bolt of 'silver fire' strikes the alternate ss (or the ss who failed to make it through):

https://postimg.cc/V5FqWH3M

so, in short, yes, it was 616 ss who made it through, and he later joined with the ss who failed to create a new, composite (??) ss? like i said, skooka references the beginning of a new universe, so i guess she meant a universe where the 2 ss's join. sort of like 616 swallowed that brief "what if" world.

so, you were actually right, in a way. except for the fact that you had it completely backwards. lol i mean seriously, what makes more sense--12 issues are the 'what if' scenario, or 3 pages represent the alternate?

and it doesn't matter anyway--the two versions become the SAME character in the end making, (i guess?) both experiences canon.

crazy fukcin arc.

Sigh, this is just repeat of so many arguments in the past years.

Originally posted by leonidas
final take on this idiotic arc.

we see the 616 ss make it through the rift in 112. we know it's the real ss because, well, making it through the rift happened first, we have the editor confirming it (and no, he wouldn't be talking about an alternate ss, really abhi??):

It is confirmed in SS 114 that Surfer never went through the rift. Call it a retcon if you can.

Even a Watcher confirms it.

https://imgur.com/a/2rxw3gw

he retains a just-out-of-reach memory of all the events:

https://imgur.com/a/Ibv8cvP

Use postimg or ibb, can't see the scans.

and well, common sense says it's dumb to think perez wrote a 12 issue "what if" arc....the arc is definitely confusing and doesn't really fit in a tidy box like you're trying to force it to.

So naive.

but what is also clear is that there were 2 ss's at some point. what i believe happened is this--the rift rips apart spacetime and within the rift realities crash into each other. so, after 616 ss makes it through, a second reality is created--a "what if" reality--where he did NOT make it. both us and ss actually SEE the alternate reality where he FAILED to make it through right here:

https://imgur.com/a/2pcWXgq

That's not alternate reality, its main 616 universe.

he sees himself and bill and quasar (bottom right) at quasar's station as he is RETURNING through the rift.

He didn't return through the rift, he was thrown back in Unilord universe after he went through the rift.

we can also surmise the unilord ss was the TRUE ss, because just prior to exiting the rift he has this talk with skooka and the reference the ss's REAL universe:

https://imgur.com/a/BfAjYsf

Lolwut? That's after he was gone in the rift and was thrown back in the unilord universe.

then of course in the second scan, we see the ss (or his soul) emerge from the rift, and THAT is what the 'bolt of silver fire' is. here is he talking about being born and dying in a 'blast of light':

https://imgur.com/a/8Z9rI9M

Nonsense, the bolt was an outrider signal which was separated from Surfer several issues agio.

if we move to your scan, we see the 2 ss's merge (the 2 realities merge and, according to skooka, a new 'universe' is created) in your scan when the bolt of 'silver fire' strikes the alternate ss (or the ss who failed to make it through):

https://postimg.cc/V5FqWH3M

What are you talking about? The silver bolt is outright stated to be the same signal Quasar and BRB had encountered five weeks ago.

https://postimg.cc/V5FqWH3M

It wasn't an alternate surfer.

so, in short, yes, it was 616 ss who made it through, and he later joined with the ss who failed to create a new, composite (??) ss? like i said, skooka references the beginning of a new universe, so i guess she meant a universe where the 2 ss's join. sort of like 616 swallowed that brief "what if" world.

Seriously?

so, you were actually right, in a way. except for the fact that you had it completely backwards. lol i mean seriously, what makes more sense--12 issues are the 'what if' scenario, or 3 pages represent the alternate?

Seriously? I mean come on.

and it doesn't matter anyway--the two versions become the SAME character in the end making, (i guess?) both experiences canon.

crazy fukcin arc.

No, they did not. The alternate surfer stayed in the unilord universe AFTER he went through the rift.

While I agree with abhi as far as this discussion is concerned [and I think the arguments are quite blatant in his favor, if anybody wants to go for a mod rulling], I don't and never will understand the obsession with this arc, in multiple threads over a period of many years. It's quite possibly the worst SS story I've ever read and I not only don't see its relevance pertaining to this thread, but the character in general. It doesn't really have....anything that anybody should care about?

Since it's generally agreed that not all Watchers have the same PL, and this thread is about Uatu....how did it even get here?

I don't and never will understand the obsession with this arc, in multiple threads over a period of many years.

It's a very weird tradition we have, that's for sure. It's like the 100th time this arc is being discussed.

It doesn't really have....anything that anybody should care about?

I don't know why it got brought up here in this thread, but I remember when many years ago it was used as proof that Surfer can survive getting sliced and diced into pieces.

It came up because someone referenced a scene from it and abhi declared it non canon. Of course I disagree with his take on it (and yours apparently) but I do agree it was a horrible arc. I’d be fine with a mid ruling if anyone cares about it that much. Like I said that was my final take on the topic.

Originally posted by leonidas
It came up because someone referenced a scene from it and abhi declared it non canon. Of course I disagree with his take on it (and yours apparently) but I do agree it was a horrible arc. I’d be fine with a mid ruling if anyone cares about it that much. Like I said that was my final take on the topic.

If somebody really wanted to lowball the Watchers they should show them being unable to descend to a planet until months later due to leftover radiation from nukes. I think...everybody agrees not all Watchers are created equal?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I don't know why it got brought up here in this thread, but I remember when many years ago it was used as proof that Surfer can survive getting sliced and diced into pieces.

Who was he fighting, Wolverine?

Oh it’s terrible. It wasn’t used here to lowball a watcher though or really to highball the ss. It was simply brought up and abhi said it wasn’t canon even though the feat proved nothing anyway. Despite the discussion I really don’t care all the much one way or the other. It made for interesting discussion and killed some lockdown boredom.

👆

Watchers are about as hard to gauge as Mephisto, imo. Grandmaster fits in there, too. All over the place. Their 'ceiling' seems to be Galactus, but generally...well, let's say Galactus looks consistent compared to them.

I'd give it to Odin, based on purely the fact that writers at least kind of know his level.

Originally posted by Philosophía
While I agree with abhi as far as this discussion is concerned [and I think the arguments are quite blatant in his favor, if anybody wants to go for a mod rulling], I don't and never will understand the obsession with this arc, in multiple threads over a period of many years. It's quite possibly the worst SS story I've ever read and I not only don't see its relevance pertaining to this thread, but the character in general. It doesn't really have....anything that anybody should care about?

Since it's generally agreed that not all Watchers have the same PL, and this thread is about Uatu....how did it even get here?

That's what the whole arc about.

Yeah, I know, which is what makes all of this so baffling.

That’s what I said way back. Any feat he has in the arc is polluted by the fact he was amped so nothing in it is of any use. The arc itself is so confusing the editor was explaining it in the letter pages to readers. But yeah, something to do. And yes I said early on I’d give it to Odin too but it’s close.

👆

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Who is on that KMC discord abhi?

Originally posted by Philosophía
👆

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Who is on that KMC discord abhi?

buncha degenerates, its a secret orgy

How I imagine it:

😂
now take out all the females in that scene, and jack pot!

Lol. Yeah exactly that. Phil we should bz Odin and the watcher lol. For something to do.

I was thinking of a skyfather tourney before I made the latest one, tbh, but I figured most people on the forum don't care about most characters above herald/trans. I don't think I'd be able to find the time/effort until early march to participate in the matches, but it could either turn hilarious or a confusing mess as most threads around that level are.

I think Mr Mind would be interested? I see he posts about that stuff, but mostly the high-end abstract ones.