Sentry and Superman switch universe

Originally posted by Enzeru
H1Z1 keeps talking about that lackluster chain feat from a non-canon Superman book, where in Marvel you have someone like Hyperion pushing back against two universes:

Do you know what cascading events are? We have, for example, cascading failures (quite similar to what happened in the comics) in which the failure of a small part of the system propagates to the whole system:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascading_failure

And we have cascades which (exponentially) amplify some single event, such as the fission of a single radioactive nucleus triggering a chain-reaction or the absorption of a single photon triggering a cascade of ever-increasing current of electrons in a photomultiplier tube:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photomultiplier_tube

In all cases, a small event triggers a much bigger net event. The initial, triggering step and the energies involved can be arbitrarily small. This was the case in Hyperion's feat as well, he was only involved with the initial *planetary-scale* event. From there on, the cascade propagated on its own.

Superman is the living embodiment of heroism and people claiming "Marvel doesn't work that way" is just a way to try to nerf the character and make it what he isn't. Indeed, you need to accept that Superman simply existing would reshape everything about Marvel so you need to conceive a watered down version of the character to fit your preconcieved notions, to which I say

Fair enough

Originally posted by Bentley

Superman is the living embodiment of heroism and people claiming "Marvel doesn't work that way" is just a way to try to nerf the character and make it what he isn't. Indeed, you need to accept that Superman simply existing would reshape everything about Marvel so you need to conceive a watered down version of the character to fit your preconcieved notions

He isn't and no one is doing that.

If Superman was the actual (Marvel-like) abstract of hope with a physical form, I wouldn't be saying any of the things I say. But he isn't. Superman is a Kryptonian like Supergirl, Zod and others. And they aren't abstracts either.
If Superman was meant to be a character like the One-Punch Man (who is a meta-commentary on ever evolving Shounen characters and predestined fight outcomes), I wouldn't be saying the things I say either.

Superman was none of those things, when Doomsday beat him into a sleeping healing coma. Nor during the other instances where he lost or couldn't perform certain things. People have even died, while Superman actively tried to save them.

Superman being played up as a meta-character has been a weird trend in the last few years. A trend that will fade away again. And those trends don't exist in Marvel comics (besides The One Above All). Nor do they exist in DC comics. Nor should they exist in comics.

Superman would be a regular high herald and below Sentrys level. I have spoken and this is the way.

Except you yourself have acknowledged that Superman is written as a meta type character.

Originally posted by Enzeru
He isn't and no one is doing that.

If Superman was the actual (Marvel-like) abstract of hope with a physical form, I wouldn't be saying any of the things I say. But he isn't. Superman is a Kryptonian like Supergirl, Zod and others. And they aren't abstracts either.
If Superman was meant to be a character like the One-Punch Man (who is a meta-commentary on ever evolving Shounen characters and predestined fight outcomes), I wouldn't be saying the things I say either.

Superman was none of those things, when Doomsday beat him into a sleeping healing coma. Nor during the other instances where he lost or couldn't perform certain things. People have even died, while Superman actively tried to save them.

Superman being played up as a meta-character has been a weird trend in the last few years. A trend that will fade away again. And those trends don't exist in Marvel comics (besides The One Above All). Nor do they exist in DC comics. Nor should they exist in comics.

Superman would be a regular high herald and below Sentrys level. I have spoken and this is the way.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85

Except you yourself have acknowledged that Superman is written as a meta type character.

Yeah, by one single dummy-dumm-dumm writer, who thinks he is the next Alan Moore. Which is ridiculous. No one is Alan Moore. And I'm saying that as someone, whose favorite fictional character period is 1 to 1 based on a story written by Alan Moore.

What Geoff Johns thinks and tries to push through with Superman won't stick, because that's not what Superman ultimately is.
But you have these crazy DC fanboys here, who read way too much into Superman lately. Remember that World Forger punch and how Superman punching a multiversal entity once immediately became a "SUPERMAN DESTROYED A MULTIVERSE! TAKE THAT MARVEL FANS, HAHAHAHAHA!".

Which is hilarious and insane twisting of the actual events. The editor of that story confirmed that Superman didn't destroy a multiversal or crack the 6th dimension open or or or:

https://i.imgur.com/Y17Tqeu.png

Superman amped on multiple suns can affect a multiversal being. Great feat. So can Thor. Doesn't make him multiversal anything though.

Just to point out though that Marino was only posting on his personal account, where his thoughts are his own and not those of DC...

So we can't really use that, as it becomes circular - you disagree with what Snyder thinks, a supporter of that feat would disagree with what Marino thinks etc etc...

All we have to go on is what is on panel, not what they may say in a Twitter or whatever.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Just to point out though that Marino was only posting on his personal account, where his thoughts are his own and not those of DC...

So we can't really use that, as it becomes circular - you disagree with what Snyder thinks, a supporter of that feat would disagree with what Marino thinks etc etc...

All we have to go on is what is on panel, not what they may say in a Twitter or whatever.

Not to mention this kind of 'proof' is not usable here.

Originally posted by Enzeru
When DC fans get all burthurt and hilariously defensive about it, you just know that you're on the money.

Marvel characters are simply more powerful. Deal with it. Post crisis Superman needed... like what? 20-30 years of existence to get one or two feats, which put him on the level of a Gladiator?

H1Z1 keeps talking about that lackluster chain feat from a non-canon Superman book, where in Marvel you have someone like Hyperion pushing back against two universes:

https://i.imgur.com/FK6Cl1J.jpg

Two universes. Not two Earths. Or two solar systems. Or two galaxies like in the case of Superman. Two UNIVERSES.

And he was pushing back against all of that physically, where in another instance the Infinity Gauntlet had been used to accomplish that (again with the statement that there is a literal UNIVERSE being pushed back):
https://i.imgur.com/uI2ERFX.jpg

And all of that was confirmed by the writer of the story:

https://i.imgur.com/PegaC8B.png

Me saying that Superman would be on the level of Gladiator or Hyperion is me holding Superman in insanely high regards. You have to be the fanboiest fanboi to ever fanboi fanboism to see any form of lowballing in my statements.

They're all still below the Sentry by a good amount. Imagine Gladiator or Hyperion or taking on the Sentry. It's like... what? They get pimp-smacked into another dimension.

And regarding the "meta-contextual part of Supermans power set". Superman would be Captain America 2.0. No other character in Marvel gets as much in-universe and outside-universe respect like Captain America. And that would apply for Superman as well. But that's also where it would end. That would not help him win any more fights.

But in the end of the day, to me it's hilarious anyway that Superman punching people is being sold as the best thing since sliced bread by the DC fans. It's like... "Superman punched Barbatos". Who cares? Universal / multiversal power does not automatically come with universal / multiversal durability (see Molecule Man). Superman didn't beat Barbatos. Neither did Superboy-Prime. Just like Thor didn't beat Chaos King, even though he made him flinch.

It's not. Paul Jenkins had his ideas about mental illness and tackled those in very vague ways.

The Joker movie has a very nice quote during a scene: "The worst part about having mental illness is people expect you to behave as if you don't."

Stuff like that appeared in the very first Sentry volume as well. When Sentry and the others erased everyones memories for example: It happened to stop the chaos and destruction, but the underlying tones were normal people prefer to ignore an issue instead of tackling it. It's easier to hide something than to face and cure it.

Same with the seemingly perfect Golden Guardian of Good. All on the shallow surface, with something dark and twisted beneath it. In the second volume it was revealed that Sentry was just an ordinary guy with severe mental problems, who gained the power of god. If Jenkins ever wrote the third volume it would have been about Sentry finally accepting that godhood, where before he was actively trying to deny it.

😂

Waah!! Waaaaaaaah!! Waaaaah, stupid dummy dc writer! Waaah waaah! Supergirls not abstract so Superman isn’t either. Waaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh! Dc fans are Butthurt!! Waaaaaahh!!

Stop crying *****. And I say that nicely.

“Two universes. Not two Earths. Or two solar systems. Or two galaxies like in the case of Superman. Two UNIVERSES.”

Wipe the tears and read the panel again. It says “Worlds”.

“By the time the worlds were about to touch, hyperion was all that remained of them.
Hyeperion held them apart.”
Where does it universe here? Clearly states worlds.

“Until they broke.”
What broke? Something he was holding apart and they broke. We know the universes collapsed so they didn’t break. WHat broke? The worlds. So he was holding apart worlds not universes.

I take it back, keep crying. 😂

Originally posted by Adam Grimes

Not to mention this kind of 'proof' is not usable here.

I'm not using it as "proof" to debunk something. I'm using it as a way of showing how ridiculously deranged certain DC fanboys are on this board.

When I read that story, nowhere did I get the perception that Superman destroyer an entire multiverse with a punch. But that's non-sense DC fanboys here starting spewing out immediately: "HURRR DURRR, MULTIVERSAL PUNCH, MULTIVERSAL PUNCH, AGENT OF HOPE SUPERMAN!"
And then you have the editor, who followed the entire story and talked to the writer and the artist confirm that no multiverse was being destroyed or anything along those lines.

Edit: Oh my god. I just realized. The DC Superdudebrofans here are slowly turning into RealityWarper 2.0 with all of this "Multiversal Superman" garbage. No wonder they rustle my jimmies.

Funny how the same person not wanting to use tweets will try and dude them but when other do it...It’s not acceptable

You got one tweet going against on panel but there is another stating superman did Destroy a universe/multiverse

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Funny how the same person not wanting to use tweets will try and dude them but when other do it...It’s not acceptable

You got one tweet going against on panel but there is another stating superman did Destroy a universe/multiverse

enzeru in meltdown mode

supergirl oneshots sentry, let alone superman

I honestly don't see how Sentry would do better than Superman in DC. Supes has his special status (annoying or not, he has it), Sentry wouldn't. That alone shifts the situation extremely in favor of Superman. Sentry is a mentally unstable guy who needs help and already was exploited because of it, Superman usually reaches out his hand and offers help. Some situations of Superman replaced with Sentry would be absolutely catastrophic because he would/should void out.

Originally posted by MrMind

enzeru in meltdown mode
supergirl oneshots sentry, let alone superman

Very nice argument. Solid evidence and so on. You really made a good case for your cause.

I'm just kidding. You didn't. Go back to posting photos of your misshapen chest, you freak.

Originally posted by MrMind
would Sentry does better in DC

or Superman does better in Marvel

Sentry would be a Teen Titans villain at first, he'd butt heads with Superboy until Raven connects with the Void and turns him into a hero. I could see Dr. Light depowering and raping him at some point. Maybe he breaks off after a few story arcs and turns into a Jessica Cruz villain.

Sentry would have been killed during Prime's first rampage.

If you're just trading the two in real life with full understanding of who they are then nothing changes... for Superman. Marvel has always wanted an icon at a high level; they just refuse to give them the push needed and always revert back to Streets. With Superman they don't need a manufactured push that they need to keep shoving in reader's faces and once they don't the character dies - Ms Marvel. They don't need to rely on movies to push the character for a couple months. They have the character with maxed "hero stats" that they don't need to create reasons why Captain America is outdoing Thor. "This looks like a job for Superman" is all they need.

Every single big Thor or Hulk feat they've ever done is possible with Superman without the glass jaw and movement deficients. If you can name one of those feats, I don't see why you'd think a more popular character would get worse.

Of course this all depends on the writers which... lol. But I think most writers would treat him like Superman unless they had an inkling for another character to put over him.

If Superman was just sent over as stats only then he falls to the wayside. Marvel continues to push Streets. Would beat Thor and then get forgotten about.

Sentry with history intact or stats only probably gets treated the same regardless. Huge team fighting deal in his debut and then gets jobbed out constantly after that. Which is funny because no matter how much Enzeru cries about DC blurring the lines between cosmics and heroes; Sentry would never get to those cosmic levels. He'd just go from team level to solo hero level. With his ability to reform it just gives them carte blanche to keep annihilating him in funny ways and bringing him back. Batmobile'd.

But on the writers getting control angle, only Hickman would be interesting to see what he does with Superman. I think he'd go pretty hard with him but Hickman also likes to sidestep raw power too in favor of plans and intelligence. Superman obviously can do both but I think Hickman would rather write Lex over Superman or Superman vs Lex than just Superman scheming.

Cates sucks so he either wanks him or really jobs him. Who cares. Died hair minority girl gets one over on Superman in other works from the writing team.

Originally posted by Diesldude

It says “Worlds”.

“By the time the worlds were about to touch, hyperion was all that remained of them.
Hyeperion held them apart.”
Where does it universe here? Clearly states worlds.

“Until they broke.”
What broke? Something he was holding apart and they broke. We know the universes collapsed so they didn’t break. WHat broke? The worlds. So he was holding apart worlds not universes.

https://i.imgur.com/uI2ERFX.jpeg

Reed Richards explained what was going on there. When they were pushing the Earth back, they were pushing back a literal entire universe:
"That Earth is like an island breaking the surface of an ocean. He is literally pushing an entire universe hidden from us."

When the writer of the story was asked, if Hyperion was holding back against two universes, he confirmed it to be the case:

https://i.imgur.com/PegaC8B.png