Originally posted by leonidasI think the last version of Prime we saw, older "Superman" Prime, is more powerful than Pre Crisis kryptonians by a considerable amount. He'd roflstomp Darkseid, too, imo. WF in his weakest 3d form can destroy the Universe with a swing of his hammer and manipulate universal energies. I don't think Superman on average is a multiversal being to be able to stand up to him without sundipping.
You think he’d one shot superboy prime? And I still don’t know what wf would do to take superman out.
Originally posted by leonidasI agree an all out Superman is more powerful than WF. Heck Dr. Manhattan knows he can’t beat Superman. He casually one shot barbatos to sleep. Serious Superman is on a whole different level. But with that said, WF is more powerful than Darkseid at least the version in this thread.
'station' isn't the same thing as personal power--or rather, personal power that can be called upon in a battle.what do you think wf would do in a battle with a full-on pc superman? after all, if superboy prime can tackle darkest knight, what makes you think pc superman can't handle wf? i also think back to superman vs the anti-monitor scene in coie. obviously AM had been weakened, but he was still hugely powerful but again, superman did just fine. we've already seen superman possesses enough power to destroy his anvil. i'd think he could also destroy his hammer if he really went all out. wf is powerful, but superman is as powerful as he needs to be.
and lol at you saying superman LOSES and me defending him. fukcin strange time we live in... 😂
I think the last version of Prime we saw, older "Superman" Prime, is more powerful than Pre Crisis kryptonians by a considerable amount. He'd roflstomp Darkseid, too, imo. WF in his weakest 3d form can destroy the Universe with a swing of his hammer and manipulate universal energies. I don't think Superman on average is a multiversal being to be able to stand up to him without sundipping.
i'm talking about just superboy prime. but the 'man' superboy prime turns into--at least in theory--IS pc superman. i think art and story have come so far that comparing these eras is very difficult, but the idea is that prime was simply a pc kryptonian and not even at the peak of his power. but i think in general pc darkseid was STILL beyond him. scaling is a TERRIBLE way to debate, but it's done here ALL the time. i could literally see pc superman punching the hammer to pieces like he did the anvil. i could see prime doing the same thing. hell, prime himself has already taking a universal level event.
if we assume the intent was to make prime a pc-level kryptonian, and pc superMAN is what prime was destined to become.... things get silly.
as far as your second post-- 😂 i came to that EXACT conclusion while i was typing my earlier response. great minds.... i mean he's already banished from the tier thread. the forum itself is the next logical step. lol
Originally posted by Diesldude
I agree an all out Superman is more powerful than WF. Heck Dr. Manhattan knows he can’t beat Superman. He casually one shot barbatos to sleep. Serious Superman is on a whole different level. But with that said, WF is more powerful than Darkseid at least the version in this thread.
an all out superman is a plot device, so hard to debate against that. pc superman was traditionally as powerful (or limited) as was needed, but in that era darkseid was still more powerful.
the problem is in the inherent way stories are told, and the focus on continuity and 'logic' that exists now that didn't back then. drop wf back into pc days and he'd be nothing special--just another powerful villain who'd get taken out. now, with all the backstory and layers that have been added to the cosmology, he's...what he is. but in relative terms, he'd just be the next big villain to go down in the pc world. at least imo.
be interesting to see what the omega effect would do to his hammer or to him directly.
Just Superboy Prime I'd wager would get one-shotted. But I think the 'man' Prime in Snyder's arc is too powerful, far above what I think even Pre-Crisis kryptonians are. I don't consider him just a pre crisis kryptonian run amok, he is simply portrayed as too powerful. His showing against TDK, even as an adult, honestly [as a superman fanboy, no less] makes zero sense. I guess the "S"-shield literally gives him the power to go up against anyone which, to the latter point, is what DC's going for with Superman but still -- jesus christ.
PC Kryptonians aren't really written to be vastly above anyway. A lot of the big feats are just from a complete lack of understanding of well... anything. Most of the time they're just normal superheroes with nothing out of the ordinary. Then they have those feats that make no sense because they were written like Carver9 wrote them. A crash course in astrology with Derrick Carvington.
Superboy Prime took that PC whackiness serious and beyond. His level is more akin to what Digi used to pretend He Man was in where he can just scale up to anything with no proof. He Man just gets stronger, here's a quote about me talking about him moving a moon guys. Only that sort of sillyness apparently has stuck with Prime. He'll do just as good against a normal team as he would against a multiverse eliminator. His power isn't static and any sort of baseline you can get out of him is still ways beyond Superman's baseline.
Prime is apparently above all of the Brother Monitors together by a lot but below COIE Anti-Monitor alone. Great character to judge.
PC Darkseid was a huge pussy compared to Anti-Monitor too who World Forger is equal to. What that means with all the retcons however is anyone's guess. Start of COIE, end of, middle? Haven't looked into it too much but I doubt there's much care with how they just raised Anti-Monitor's base form to seemingly above his end form in COIE instead.
Originally posted by PhilosophíaLike Manhattan, WF believed that it was fully possible for Superman to kill him(as he mentioned during his convo with Batman.)
Unless we have a Dr. Manhattan situation, in which case that type of interpretation can kill Living Tribunal with a punch.In which case there is no point having him in any thread.
So yeah...