Originally posted by carver9
I'll reply to the rest of your post later, but, the scan where Superman and Doomsday are fighting (Doomsday laughing), I mentioned that, even at Superman lowest, pillars falling on him should do nothing. Absolutely nothing and even during that scene, he was still withstanding blows from Doomsday before and after that. So either Doomsday punches<Pillars or Doomsday punches>pillars but the pillars being a TERRIBLE showing.In regards to the explosion you posted, we do not know how much of that blast he endured. He fell into an exploding building right after that scene and could hardly walk. So you're either accepting that scene plus everything else that happened after it or exempting it. I said I wanted to exempt it since Doomsday stabbed Superman but it is what it is.
Btw, you missed out some context. Due to the amount of damage Superman had suffered prior to being hit by those pillars, he couldn't even see properly - hell, he couldn't even fly:
In short, you are really missing out that Superman was really low on power. Yet, he still managed to (finally) kill Doomsday - because of him rising to the occasion and sacrificing himself.
Originally posted by carver9
Talking about clothing being removed destroys nothing. It's a cop out and cheap way of debating and a stale way of avoiding a topic. Hulk pants doesn't have anything to do with him being unable to beat Zeus. You might as well mention pants in any versus argument. Why didn't Hulk beat Zeus? Why didn't Hulk pants get destroyed? Why didn't Prime beat Superboy? Why didn't Hulk pants get destroyed? Why didn't Gladiator beat Colossus? Why didn't Hulk pants get destroyed?
How about Robin?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85My point being, 'humans' in comics survive things that no humans IRL can take. Them being damaged at all, in fact, shows extreme power.
Quite why this is all new to you after your entire reading history, is mysterious to me.
I mean, just a couple days ago you pointed out that in comics, the distance one is thrown means nothing to the damage suffered, right?
Originally posted by carver9
I forgot to post this but Robin do not get enough love. He survived a point blank attack from the most powerful imp...Not only that, he was moving so fast that the imp couldn't even hit him at one point.
The Pillars shouldn't have knocked him out. I'm just surprised you're doubting the comic was plagued with low showings. You can post that one showing all you want, but that doesn't take away from an entire comic portraying these characters in the worst ways they've ever been in comic history.
Also, aren't you the same guy that downplayed Ironman Celestial busting armor due to it not surviving 3000 gamma bombs worth of energy (before this, far less energy destroyed a Celestial hand. Disintegrated it). Are you not the same guy who downplayed cosmic Thor due to a single showing of him being staggered by a rock being thrown at him? But you're ignoring everything that was shown in this Superman vs Doomsday comic because...
Help me understand why you're being so hypocritical?
[
Originally posted by carver9
The Pillars shouldn't have knocked him out. I'm just surprised you're doubting the comic was plagued with low showings. You can post that one showing all you want, but that doesn't take away from an entire comic portraying these characters in the worst ways they've ever been in comic history.Also, aren't you the same guy that downplayed Ironman Celestial busting armor due to it not surviving 3000 gamma bombs worth of energy (before this, far less energy destroyed a Celestial hand. Disintegrated it). Are you not the same guy who downplayed cosmic Thor due to a single showing of him being staggered by a rock being thrown at him? But you're ignoring everything that was shown in this Superman vs Doomsday comic because...
Help me understand why you're being so hypocritical?
One showing?
QUOTE=17436940]Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Here is Daredevil, point blank, against Pyro:
KOd, but no burns (look at the area around his mouth).
Here is Nightwing being smashed through concrete walls by Donna Troy, no armour, and he's fine, still backflipping:
Here is Nightwing with armour, taking a point blank punch from Osiris (empowered by Black Adam, remember):
https://i.imgur.com/ajaDhG8.jpg
I can do this all day.
I mean, here is Blue Beetle when he met Kingdom Come WW:
She grabs him by the throat and throws him at a boulder. He gets up, fine.
Superman does not exist in reality. Dan Jurgens does. I mean, what statements WOULD you accept? Booster said DD was faster than Flash - you never accepted that. Name a 'human' level character in comics, and I will try to find examples of them against 'heralds', or against damage.
I mean, here is frickin' PENGUIN being smashed through bathroom tiles, no blood, no injury:
My point being, 'humans' in comics survive things that no humans IRL can take. Them being damaged at all, in fact, shows extreme power.
Quite why this is all new to you after your entire reading history, is mysterious to me.
I mean, just a couple days ago you pointed out that in comics, the distance one is thrown means nothing to the damage suffered, right? [/QUOTE]
I ignored it.... because I had already addressed it.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
We are back at square one because you keep comparing apples to oranges.THAT thread had 'amped' Galactus in the thread. So we used 'amped' G's feats.
THIS thread has DOS Doomsday. So we use DOS Doomsday feats (let's ignore his pre-DOS feats).
OK. [b]BUT
the crucial difference is their opponents that we scale off are NOT limited to the storyline. Remember, I used Skuttlebutt hurting Galactus? Then used all of Skuttlebutt's feats throughout history?So in THIS thread, Superman is NOT limited to the DOS storyline. I am consistent, you see. I was asking because in comics, 'amps' don't always show up. Colossus with Cytorrak and Phoenix 5 amp was a disappointment. Sodam Yat with Ion entity and GL ring was meh. Juggernaut gets a new powerup every other week, or Cytorrak gives 'the most power I have ever given to my avatar!!' every other day - doesn't mean jack without showings.
Aren't you the one who argued a day or so ago, that Wolverine being kicked through some trees doesn't mean anything about the damage caused?
So why would Superman being hit by those pillars mean anything? I do like that you are ignoring he was pretty hurt even before they met those pillars (whilst DD is laughing at him):
And conveniently ignore the later explosion:
Where he was still conscious and holding on. A bit larger than a gas station, no? [/B]
That's the thing and I feel this is the reason we keep going back and forth. Yes, most of the time, we do include all of the showings, but in this case, we can't. Superman was in a prolong with him, but you all argument is Doomsday getting stronger while the fight progressed. Superman endured multiple attacks from Doomsday, punches, kicks, etc... but during the same time, pillars knocked him out, gas station explosions knocked him out, Doomsday tossing pillars at him knocked him out. Rewind or fast forward, choose one, and again, Superman was withstanding hits from Doomsday. So we have two things here, either the Pillars and gas station explosion is >>>>> Doomsday punches and kicks or we back at what I've been saying this entire time, full of low showings.
Also, you keep mentioning Flash. I don't know why when Doomsday top speed was clocked in DOS under the speed of sound, and that was around the end of the comic. I think Flash is far faster than that, don't you?
Also addressed:
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Pillars that were kicked by Doomsday. I mean, if Hulk punches Wolverine and all it does is break a few trees, is that a low showing for Wolverine (who has been in nukes)? Is it a low showing for Hulk? Or do we ignore the collateral damage, and say hey, Hulk is damn strong, and Logan is lucky that his HF is that uber?I think you and I both agree that the third statement is true.
It's cumulative damage for Superman. Which was a consistent theme throughout the entire storyline. As time went on, Superman was increasingly damaged and hurt, whilst Doomsday was fresh as a daisy.
By the by, he was literally at the center of that explosion - the electrical line in the first panel is what provided the spark that caused the explosion.
I mean, what is your end point here?
You assert that DOS Doomsday is weak (meta tier) because the opposition he faced had low showings (Superman).
You also assert he was weak because...the opposition he faced had high showings (Blue Beetle, Booster Gold, Guy Gardner).
I mean, which is it? [/B]
This is literally just a repeat, mang.
Originally posted by carver9
That's the thing and I feel this is the reason we keep going back and forth. Yes, most of the time, we do include all of the showings, but in this case, we can't. Superman was in a prolong with him, but you all argument is Doomsday getting stronger while the fight progressed. Superman endured multiple attacks from Doomsday, punches, kicks, etc... but during the same time, pillars knocked him out, gas station explosions knocked him out, Doomsday tossing pillars at him knocked him out. Rewind or fast forward, choose one, and again, Superman was withstanding hits from Doomsday. So we have two things here, either the Pillars and gas station explosion is >>>>> Doomsday punches and kicks or we back at what I've been saying this entire time, full of low showings.Also, you keep mentioning Flash. I don't know why when Doomsday top speed was clocked in DOS under the speed of sound, and that was around the end of the comic. I think Flash is far faster than that, don't you?
How can one person be so full of shit. It has to be a record.
