Batman's warehouse fight is a way better fight scene than anything I've seen from Black Widow.
That doesn't change the fact that Batman has not done anything to match Black Widow's feats. Especially after the Black Widow movie. Natasha pulled off stuff there that puts her durability at pretty much superhuman levels.
Originally posted by Silent MasterBasically nothing when characters are extremely skilled.
You don't know what agility has to do with a hth fight?
Originally posted by h1a8
Basically nothing when characters are extremely skilled.
For example, look at BW fight with equally skilled characters with less agility (Hawkeye, etc). They were handling her just fine without any fancy jumps or flips. Hell Hawkeye was pulling his punches in Civil War when they looked evenly matched.
You do recall that Barton lost to Natasha right?
Originally posted by FrothByte
You do recall that Barton lost to Natasha right?
Barton was mind controlled so that doesn't count (and that wasn't a pure h2h fight). In civil war, I recall Barton having the slight upper hand. But the argument isn't who is better at h2h between the two. The argument is that Barton had less agility than her and was able to fight her on near even terms.
Originally posted by Silent MasterWas there any evidence that she trying to get hit?
So your claim is that Black Widow was going all out in her fight with Hawkeye and that fight should be used as the standard by which her agility is judged for all future fights?
In a nutshell, both are evenly match (even if one is slightly better) where his lack of agility didn't matter.
Originally posted by h1a8
Barton was mind controlled so that doesn't count (and that wasn't a pure h2h fight). In civil war, I recall Barton having the slight upper hand. But the argument isn't who is better at h2h between the two. The argument is that Barton had less agility than her and was able to fight her on near even terms.Was there any evidence that she trying to get hit?
In a nutshell, both are evenly match (even if one is slightly better) where his lack of agility didn't matter.
The thing about Clint being mind controlled is that there was really no doubt about how that fight was going to end. Natasha is a much better fighter.
Barton had no upper hand in Civil War either. Natasha was ready to kick him in the face if it wasnt for Wanda taking her out. Neither were trying their hardest due to their friendship though.
Batman against Natasha is a good matchup. I think Natasha is the better fighter, but Batman is definitely stronger and has the better damage soak due to his suit (although a common thug stabbed him with a knife). Its too close to call for me. Could go either way.
Originally posted by tkitna
The thing about Clint being mind controlled is that there was really no doubt about how that fight was going to end. Natasha is a much better fighter.Barton had no upper hand in Civil War either. Natasha was ready to kick him in the face if it wasnt for Wanda taking her out. Neither were trying their hardest due to their friendship though.
Batman against Natasha is a good matchup. I think Natasha is the better fighter, but Batman is definitely stronger and has the better damage soak due to his suit (although a common thug stabbed him with a knife). Its too close to call for me. Could go either way.
Natasha has better damage soak(especially against blunt force trauma) because she's just tougher than Batman based on feats and the many more movies she's been in than him.
Hulk has slapped her into a wall and caused some rubble to fall on her leg. She gets the rubble off, gets up immediately and runs off in a few seconds. She was riding Hulk in Ultron and he flung her 40-50 feet off his back when he landed. She hits the ground, rolls and lands on her feet. She's jumped 50 feet off a helicopter with no rappel rope and just landed. She's also taken hits from Taskmaster, Bucky, Proxima Midnight and other superhumans far above Batman and been just fine.
Also when Natasha and Batman fight normal people, she knocks them out almost instantly, even with armor and helmets. He seems to struggle even with random goons and being stronger than them.
Originally posted by h1a8
Was there any evidence that she trying to get hit?In a nutshell, both are evenly match (even if one is slightly better) where his lack of agility didn't matter.
So, your claim is that Black Widow was going all out in her fight with Hawkeye and that fight should be used as the standard by which her agility is judged for all future fights?
Originally posted by Silent MasterGoing all out has nothing to do with avoiding getting hit. The intent was that they were evenly matched. But he had less agility. So if she is as skilled and have more agility but appears to be evenly match then her agility was meaningless. Looking at the fight, she didn't use any great agility to tag him. Just pure punching and kicking skill.
So, your claim is that Black Widow was going all out in her fight with Hawkeye and that fight should be used as the standard by which her agility is judged for all future fights?
Originally posted by tkitnaYou seeing this can go either way proves that you are bias towards marvel. You are disqualified from the debate. Batman is a peer in skill but stronger and more durable (the suit). This fight is a stomp.
The thing about Clint being mind controlled is that there was really no doubt about how that fight was going to end. Natasha is a much better fighter.Barton had no upper hand in Civil War either. Natasha was ready to kick him in the face if it wasnt for Wanda taking her out. Neither were trying their hardest due to their friendship though.
Batman against Natasha is a good matchup. I think Natasha is the better fighter, but Batman is definitely stronger and has the better damage soak due to his suit (although a common thug stabbed him with a knife). Its too close to call for me. Could go either way.
Originally posted by KingD19BW is several times less durable than Batman (with his suit). Hulk was holding back and she was injured. Would a normal movie star suffered more damage? Prove it.
Natasha has better damage soak(especially against blunt force trauma) because she's just tougher than Batman based on feats and the many more movies she's been in than him.Hulk has slapped her into a wall and caused some rubble to fall on her leg. She gets the rubble off, gets up immediately and runs off in a few seconds. She was riding Hulk in Ultron and he flung her 40-50 feet off his back when he landed. She hits the ground, rolls and lands on her feet. She's jumped 50 feet off a helicopter with no rappel rope and just landed. She's also taken hits from Taskmaster, Bucky, Proxima Midnight and other superhumans far above Batman and been just fine.
Also when Natasha and Batman fight normal people, she knocks them out almost instantly, even with armor and helmets. He seems to struggle even with random goons and being stronger than them.
She's not affecting batman through the suit. It's movies. I can punch her in the face and make her bleed or bruise. You want to talk nonsense then Batman took a hit from Superman that sent him flying many feet away without any damage. Bucky didn't hit her. Proxima didn't appear to be striking with any superhuman force above Batman (or at all)
Originally posted by h1a8
Going all out has nothing to do with avoiding getting hit. The intent was that they were evenly matched. But he had less agility. So if she is as skilled and have more agility but appears to be evenly match then her agility was meaningless. Looking at the fight, she didn't use any great agility to tag him. Just pure punching and kicking skill.
So, that's a yes to my question?
Originally posted by Silent MasterYour question is irrelevant to the facts of this fight. She got tagged and appeared to be on equal footing with someone with less agility.
So, that's a yes to my question?
So your main point is faulty. Her extra agility is meaningless here.
Im thinking about creating a thread where both are in passion clothes to make it more a fair match.
Originally posted by h1a8
Your question is irrelevant to the facts of this fight. She got tagged and appeared to be on equal footing with someone with less agility.So your main point is faulty. Her extra agility is meaningless here.
Im thinking about creating a thread where both are in passion clothes to make it more a fair match.
Whether someone was holding back is irrelevant to a fight?