Originally posted by Silent MasterIts irrelevant to being able to avoid getting tagged. Both were holding back and both were able to tag the other. She never appeared superior to him in h2h combat.
Whether someone was holding back is irrelevant to a fight?
Holding back striking power vs avoiding getting hit are two different things.
Originally posted by h1a8
You seeing this can go either way proves that you are bias towards marvel. You are disqualified from the debate. Batman is a peer in skill but stronger and more durable (the suit). This fight is a stomp.
Batman is not a peer in skill and thats why its not even close to being a stomp. As for feats, as King said earlier, Natasha has them in spades. So if you want to talk about bias, you netter check yours at the door DC fanboy.
Originally posted by h1a8
Barton was mind controlled so that doesn't count (and that wasn't a pure h2h fight). In civil war, I recall Barton having the slight upper hand. But the argument isn't who is better at h2h between the two. The argument is that Barton had less agility than her and was able to fight her on near even terms.
He was mind controlled which meant he was going for the kill, whereas Natasha wasn't trying to seriously injure him. She still won. That's despite the fact that he was armed with a bow and later on armed with a knife while she was empty handed.
In Civil War, Black Widow had the upper hand and was about to kick Barton in the face when Wanda interfered and threw Nat away.
You really need to watch these movies first.
Originally posted by Silent Master
Interesting, so using your logic a Flash going all out with his speed and a holding back Flash would get tagged the exact same amount.Does anyone else agree with h1's "logic"?
You are begging the question which is a logical fallacy. You are assuming "holding back" implies trying to get hit. Speed can be used defensively at its fullest (perceiving an attack and avoiding it). Holding back would imply less speed offensively "near impact" (hit less hard).
Originally posted by FrothByte
He was mind controlled which meant he was going for the kill, whereas Natasha wasn't trying to seriously injure him. She still won. That's despite the fact that he was armed with a bow and later on armed with a knife while she was empty handed.In Civil War, Black Widow had the upper hand and was about to kick Barton in the face when Wanda interfered and threw Nat away.
You really need to watch these movies first.
Mind controlled fights don't count towards any form of evidence. A character is compromised and wouldn't necessarily fight the same way if they weren't. Also that wasn't a pure hand to hand fight. There was a plot device that caused BW to win.
Still, The perception was that they were evenly matched. But Barton had less agility. Why are you defending Silent's stupid argument anyway? Why not just argue who wins?
Originally posted by tkitnaBatman is a peer in fighting skill. If they fought in plain clothes then the fight will last a good while before a victor emerges. Do you even know what peer means?
Batman is not a peer in skill and thats why its not even close to being a stomp. As for feats, as King said earlier, Natasha has them in spades. So if you want to talk about bias, you netter check yours at the door DC fanboy.
You must watch the movies. Stop judging without watching the movie.
Originally posted by h1a8
You are begging the question which is a logical fallacy. You are assuming "holding back" implies trying to get hit. Speed can be used defensively at its fullest (perceiving an attack and avoiding it). Holding back would imply less speed offensively "near impact" (hit less hard).
Everything you just said is wrong
Originally posted by h1a8
Batman is a peer in fighting skill. If they fought in plain clothes then the fight will last a good while before a victor emerges. Do you even know what peer means?You must watch the movies. Stop judging without watching the movie.
They arent peers regardless of how much you want them to be.
If they were in street clothes, i'd give it to Natasha every single time.
https://gfycat.com/impurebarrengoral - Hulk swipes her into a wall and she gets right back up
https://gfycat.com/easyshoddyborzoi - Wanda saves Clint from the headkick and flings Nat spine/skull first into a machine and she gets back up after a few seconds
https://gfycat.com/uglyunfiteelelephant - Winter Soldier tosses her into a car
https://imgur.com/sq9CDqx - A simple knee from Proxima sends her flying a few feet backward and bouncing off rock/hard dirt and shown by how easily she tosses Okoye, she definitely has superstrength, also shown when she overpowered Cap(both women get back up however)
https://gfycat.com/adorablecleanamericanrobin - Hauls ass from Hulk as soon as she gets wreckage off her leg, despite it being injured from said wreckage
https://gfycat.com/unknownhappygoluckyfattaileddunnart - Hulk flings her so hard she flies off and bounces like a ragdoll on hard ground. Still rolls directly to her feet with no problem.
https://gfycat.com/smugunsightlyboutu - Exploding arrow detonated right next to her and she was fine
https://gfycat.com/elegantvaguecurlew - Got exploded out of an enclosed space and was okay. Also she shows in that scene how easily she can KO people even in full tactical. Batman really has to work at it with normal goons.
They haven't added her solo movie feats yet but they add even more like jumping out of a helicopter without gear and just landing on her feet. Or taking hits from Taskmaster. Or breaking her own nose with a smile on her face by slamming her head into a desk.
Batman doesn't have the strength to put Widow down, and he's not as skilled or as fast as her. And in fights with normal people, she seems to take them out with far more efficiency and ease than Batman as she usually KO's people in one or two hits.
Originally posted by KingD19
https://gfycat.com/impurebarrengoral - 1. Hulk swipes her into a wall and she gets right back up
https://gfycat.com/easyshoddyborzoi - 2. Wanda saves Clint from the headkick and flings Nat spine/skull first into a machine and she gets back up after a few seconds
https://gfycat.com/uglyunfiteelelephant - 3. Winter Soldier tosses her into a car
https://imgur.com/sq9CDqx - 4. A simple knee from Proxima sends her flying a few feet backward and bouncing off rock/hard dirt and shown by how easily she tosses Okoye, she definitely has superstrength, also shown when she overpowered Cap(both women get back up however)
https://gfycat.com/adorablecleanamericanrobin - 5. Hauls ass from Hulk as soon as she gets wreckage off her leg, despite it being injured from said wreckage
https://gfycat.com/unknownhappygoluckyfattaileddunnart - 6. Hulk flings her so hard she flies off and bounces like a ragdoll on hard ground. Still rolls directly to her feet with no problem.
https://gfycat.com/smugunsightlyboutu - 7. Exploding arrow detonated right next to her and she was fine
https://gfycat.com/elegantvaguecurlew - 8. Got exploded out of an enclosed space and was okay.9. Also she shows in that scene how easily she can KO people even in full tactical. Batman really has to work at it with normal goons.
They haven't added her solo movie feats yet but they add even more like jumping out of a helicopter without gear and just landing on her feet. Or taking hits from Taskmaster. Or breaking her own nose with a smile on her face by slamming her head into a desk.
Batman doesn't have the strength to put Widow down, and he's not as skilled or as fast as her. And in fights with normal people, she seems to take them out with far more efficiency and ease than Batman as she usually KO's people in one or two hits.
Why not post Batman feats just to be objective?
1. Weak. All movie humans could do that and many even better. To me that showed how weak she was.
2. Weak as hell. Do you think any movie human wouldn't be able to get up from that? Lmfao
3. Weak as hell again. I guess the average movie human would die of that 🙄
4. Weak. All action movie humans would be fine there.
5. Why was her leg injured?
6. Weak. She was slightly hurt. But she rolled to cushion the fall. What condition do you expect Bruce to be in if he fell exactly the same way?
7. Lmao. Said arrow had no intention of harming her. Weak as shit feat.
8. She used the soldier as a shield duh. And she was still messed up.
9. BW has had to hit ordinary people multiple times in order to incapacitate them, multiple times. You are now cherry picking. Batman has koed multiple people with a single blow too. Actually his striking and strength feats dwarfs hers. Batman is at least 1.5-2x more powerful than her if you cherry pick his highest feats.
Go look at his feats (cherry pick the highest ones to be fair lol).
Enemy durability/damage soak fluctuates (you are falsely assuming all human enemies has same damage soak). For example, if a human in tactical gear is koed when judo flipped to the ground and another human (without tactical gear) is not koed after being kicked 20feet through the air then how are those enemies equal?
Originally posted by h1a8
Mind controlled fights don't count towards any form of evidence. A character is compromised and wouldn't necessarily fight the same way if they weren't. Also that wasn't a pure hand to hand fight. There was a plot device that caused BW to win.
Still, The perception was that they were evenly matched. But Barton had less agility. Why are you defending Silent's stupid argument anyway? Why not just argue who wins?
Black Widow is proven to be a better h2h fighter than Hawkeye, as evidenced by the fact that she won.
And yeah, she wins against Batman.
Originally posted by tkitnaMost of the those feats arent feats. Any movie human can do them. If you don't think so then please provide evidence that the average movie human can't achieve the so called feats I stated were weak.
Its laughable. Every single feat downplayed. He's such a waste of oxygen.
Originally posted by Silent MasterHe posted only BW feats and none of Batman's. Therefore he is bias towards BW. I left the assignment for him to do so that he can reevaluate his stance.
There it is, instead of posting matching or superior Batman feats, he focuses on trying to downplay the Marvel feats.This tells you everything you need to know about h1.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Black Widow is proven to be a better h2h fighter than Hawkeye, as evidenced by the fact that she won.And yeah, she wins against Batman.
Black Widow could be a better fighter. That wasn't the argument stupid. The argument is that they are peers in h2h combat but Hawkeye has less agility than her. Or you can say that she can beat Hawkeye sometimes without using any agility. My point was that agility is meaningless here (Silent is arguing that her agility will get her the win).
She gets stomped 100/10 here. WTF are you talking about idiot?
You are a goofy troll now.
In plain clothes Batman will win, he's significantly stronger and tougher with peer fighting skill.
In a batsuit this is bordering spite. He would absorb the high majority of her blows without any damage. He would sling her around like a rag doll like crossbones did.
Originally posted by Silent MasterHe never compared both fears before posting. He only researched BW feats (cherry picking the best). If he even watches the batman fight scenes he would have a more objective viewpoint.
It's not his job to do you work for you. if you can't post any matching or superior feats for Batman. then the feats King posted win by default.
I don't debate with bias individuals you don't know both characters feats before posting.