Few facts about the deer thing.
[list]
[*]It's been a KMC forum joke for as long as the site existed. Old-timers are well aware of the context, but choose to ignore it to keep the joke going - which is fine, as we do that for plenty of other characters.
[*]Alpha Flight Shaman's student sucked at stealth, him breaking the branch caused the deer to freak out and kick Logan in the face:
[*]Wolverine wasn't KO'd - in fact, he managed to beat Shaman's student to the car with enough time to spare to change his shirt:
[*]This is what Wolverine wanted to do:
[*]And he is perfectly capable of accomplishing said feat:
[/list]
We've had dozens of entire threads dedicated to this subject (or derailed, like this one here). History loves to repeat itself.
Same with Darkseid vs. Stairs, Apocalypse vs. Table or Hulk vs. Python... 😂
Or Surfer vs. Mexicans (South Americans, actually), Darkseid vs. Muggers or Thanos vs. Cops.
Well, Apocalypse vs. Table actually had no good explanation, so KMC needed to wait for Frank Tieri's Apoc/Dracula mini-series, where Nur proved mighty enough to break a table with one punch.
Phil didn't do his homework and forgot to include the scan in the revamped respect thread. Shame on him.
Originally posted by Stoic
Thanks for the clarification. My point is that if Doomsday were to again appear in DC Comics, he would still give Superman the fight of his life, because plot insists upon this happening. This is regardless to whatever power ups may have been stitched into previous arcs. All the same, I maintain that no one can beat Superman. It was written clear as day that his dials go above every other character. He's the Champion of the Megaverse. Not even being sarcastic here. No one can beat him on a consistent basis.
It was supposed to be DOS Doomsday he faced in that instance, and Superman had well surpassed that by FLASHPOINT. In fact, if it was H/P Doomsday in INFINITE CRISIS(I genuinely don't know as Doomsday gets confusing by that point) him and Kal-L beat him so quickly that either could have won 1v1. So it didn't make sense DOS Doomsday would give Superman such a fight by that point, and other examples supporting the gap had closed, and you believed this meant he was just as powerful as during DOS. When the same writer explicitly had him weaker in the New 52 Universe in LOUS & CLARK. I assume it was the he was split in two to make New 52 Superman.
Originally posted by Delta1938
It was supposed to be DOS Doomsday he faced in that instance, and Superman had well surpassed that by FLASHPOINT. In fact, if it was H/P Doomsday in INFINITE CRISIS(I genuinely don't know as Doomsday gets confusing by that point) him and Kal-L beat him so quickly that either could have won 1v1. So it didn't make sense DOS Doomsday would give Superman such a fight by that point, and other examples supporting the gap had closed, and you believed this meant he was just as powerful as during DOS. When the same writer explicitly had him weaker in the New 52 Universe in LOUS & CLARK. I assume it was the he was split in two to make New 52 Superman.
Doomsday was almost killed by Imperiex at OWAW
https://ibb.co/hKrg86d
https://ibb.co/7pvh7hh
Later in Superman #175, Doomsday was resurrected by combining kryptonian's DNA and was changed forever by the encounter with Imperiex
https://ibb.co/ngBmDgf
https://ibb.co/xF0fjsB
https://ibb.co/ZmHR8Wz
And I also think the Doomsday that appeared in Rebirth was a different version from DOS iteration
https://ibb.co/pLjQsBq
https://ibb.co/9N1YVPQ
Superman comments on this Doomsday not only is faster and more savage than he remembered, but also could use strategies
Yes, qwerty is correct.
The initial version of Doomsday [DoS -> H/P -> DD War -> OWAW -> Death at the hands of Imperiex] is gone, it's essentially just recreations [DD Rex, GoG DD etc.] or rebooted versions [like New 52].
Also correct that it was depowered Superdad pre-merger and not DoS DD, too.
As for the answer to this thread, Byrne Superman was still the most powerful hero in DC, so the answer is still most people. Just because he is orders of magnitude more powerful now, doesn't mean he wasn't already at a very high level.
Originally posted by PhilosophíaDeath of Superman is also a weird gauge. Superman always has the unlimited power we see him toss about constantly nowadays, but he hadn't discovered it yet in the Doomsday fight until the final moments.
Yes, qwerty is correct.The initial version of Doomsday [DoS -> H/P -> DD War -> OWAW -> Death at the hands of Imperiex] is gone, it's essentially just recreations [DD Rex, GoG DD etc.] or rebooted versions [like New 52].
Also correct that it was depowered Superdad pre-merger and not DoS DD, too.
As for the answer to this thread, Byrne Superman was still the most powerful hero in DC, so the answer is still most people. Just because he is orders of magnitude more powerful now, doesn't mean he wasn't already at a very high level.
Conversely, Doomsday was severely weakened in that story. He was trapped away from sun himself for a long time, and was getting stronger as the story went. But you put Superman's back to the wall and he's going to beat you.
Hunter Prey was Doomsday's actual level more in line with what we saw from his history.
And yes, that version was dropped off at the end of time in entropy, saved by Brainiac, then put in constant teleportation, then released to fight Imperiex where he died. Everything after wasn't the same Doomsday. Though one could argue bringing him back by a piece of his DNA and splicing it and all the other random shit that happened is just part of his character evolution that could also be considered in line with his history- when people refer to Doomsday, they typically mean his original unbeatable incarnation.
Originally posted by Philosophíammm the impossible inconsistencies of comics in a single post.
Yes, qwerty is correct.The initial version of Doomsday [DoS -> H/P -> DD War -> OWAW -> Death at the hands of Imperiex] is gone, it's essentially just recreations [DD Rex, GoG DD etc.] or rebooted versions [like New 52].
Also correct that it was depowered Superdad pre-merger and not DoS DD, too.
As for the answer to this thread, Byrne Superman was still the most powerful hero in DC, so the answer is still most people. Just because he is orders of magnitude more powerful now, doesn't mean he wasn't already at a very high level.
Speaking of the power levels.
You know I've finally gotten to the point in my age where I miss the 90s comics like Williamson, Jergens, Starlin, Marz etc. There was a lot more feeling of stakes even if the stakes were often lower. I feel like Morrison's take going into the Green Lantern run was correct where he was saying you can only do the next biggest universe ending baddie so many times before you pull it back. I think Marvel and DC have begun to paint themselves into a corner.
I've been buying more complete/omnibus collections of old stuff than new material, though I do still keep up with current comics.
Originally posted by JuntaiNo doubt mate, the comics today just aren't up to snuff and stakes and tension are a big part of that.
Speaking of the power levels.
You know I've finally gotten to the point in my age where I miss the 90s comics like Williamson, Jergens, Starlin, Marz etc. There was a lot more feeling of stakes even if the stakes were often lower. I feel like Morrison's take going into the Green Lantern run was correct where he was saying you can only do the next biggest universe ending baddie so many times before you pull it back. I think Marvel and DC have begun to paint themselves into a corner.
I've been buying more complete/omnibus collections of old stuff than new material, though I do still keep up with current comics.
Originally posted by lawest9
Byrne era Superman is one of the weaker version of Supes, who is the most powerful person/being he can defeat from DC or Marvel?
A misconception that Byrne Superman was particularly weak.
This is the same Superman who survived sitting at the center of a collapsing Sun Eater.
If we removed flagship characters, which other characters got boosts? I strongly believe that Byrne Superman would've beaten Rogol Zaar, because he has always been as strong as the plot needed him to be. I mean, did Zod get a boosts? Why did Zod appear to give Superman a better fight than Darkseid back in the days of pre flash? Superman is simply a metatextual almighty character that has been paraded around as being peers to guys that he will eventually flatten, even though they initially gave him a decent fight. Check out the latest issues of Action Comics. Mongul is a badass right now, but watch and see what's in store for him. No one can beat Superman.
Originally posted by StoicIt's because Superman is the most powerful reality warper in comics. The story forms around him.
If we removed flagship characters, which other characters got boosts? I strongly believe that Byrne Superman would've beaten Rogol Zaar, because he has always been as strong as the plot needed him to be. I mean, did Zod get a boosts? Why did Zod appear to give Superman a better fight than Darkseid back in the days of pre flash? Superman is simply a metatextual almighty character that has been paraded around as being peers to guys that he will eventually flatten, even though they initially gave him a decent fight. Check out the latest issues of Action Comics. Mongul is a badass right now, but watch and see what's in store for him. No one can beat Superman.
But yeah, even excluding that, it's pretty clear that being the most powerful man on Earth is just his floor, and he has many gears after that. He can be surprised and roughed up though before he realizes he has to hit the next level. Which is something he gets criticized for by his peers occasionally as well.