Originally posted by Endless MikeThing doesn't have any feats above 2000 tons. He is officially shown working out with weights from 50 to 100 tons (he is using significant effort). I seen them all. Come at me and I'll disprove whatever you got.
Actually both the Hulk and the Thing have many feats that would require a lot more than a million tons of strength.
Originally posted by carver9
https://imgur.io/etWvCgp
If they fought 1v1 in a forum match, do you believe that Ocean Master would win? Do you believe that if Ocean Master ran into Superman in a Superman book that he’d be able to defeat Superman? If you answered no, you are starting to understand exactly what I was saying about win/loss percentage. The characters in this thread have a history of losses that far outweigh their win percentage against the same characters that may have defeated them in the past. Most of the time when Superman has a rematch he goes on to take the win. This is why I asked you if you thought that Gladiator would be able to defeat Anni-Hulk if he faced him again, or if Count Nefaria had to fight Doom again would he win in a rematch? Based upon their track record the answer should be no, whereas in Superman’s case, he usually wins the rematch.
Originally posted by carver9
https://imgur.io/etWvCgp
Originally posted by h1a8
Thing doesn't have any feats above 2000 tons. He is officially shown working out with weights from 50 to 100 tons (he is using significant effort). I seen them all. Come at me and I'll disprove whatever you got.
Okay, let's start with this one.
https://www.fanverse.org/blogs/fantastic-four-bit-feats-part-5.19565/
Jumping ahead to issue 72, we have Ben smacking Reed's "sonic shark" missile into the stratosphere before it can explode or change its course:http://i.imgur.com/Tsta9QH.jpg
The shape of this missile is a bit complicated, but it can be approximated as a cylinder with a cone on the front, surrounded by 4 cylinders each with 2 domes on the front and back:
Spoiler:
Surfer's official height is 6' 4" (1.9304 m), thus the dimensions of the missile are:
Cylinder length: 7.052133391 m
Cone base/cylinder width: 2.144379119 m
Cone length: 2.807589156 m
Side cylinder length: 2.321235129 m
Side cylinder width: 0.7074240392 m
Dome length: 0.5526750306 mSome volume calculations:
Cylinder volume = 25.46909651 m^3
Cone volume = 3.37991145 m^3
Side cylinder volume = 0.9123650556 m^3
Dome volume = 0.14 m^3Multiply the side cylinder volume by 4 and the dome volume by 8, then add everything together, and we get a total volume of 33.61846818 m^3. Using the density of iron (good enough for government work), the mass is 264,711.8185 kg. I could angsize the Earth, but to save time (and be conservative), I'll just go with the statement that it was hit into the stratosphere. Wikipedia says that at most latitudes the stratosphere starts at 10-13 km above the surface, so I'll use the average, 11.5 km (the low altitude they were already at is inconsequential).
They said the missile was going to go off any second, and it was hit that far before its guidance computers could correct its course, so in this case, 1 second seems perfectly justified as a low-end.
0.5 * 264,711.8185 * 11500^2 = 1.7504069e13 j, or 4.183572896 Kt. A casual punch from an early Thing.
4.18 kilotons of energy translates roughly into lifting just under 2 billion tons 1 meter upwards against Earth's surface gravity.
Originally posted by Stoic
If they fought 1v1 in a forum match, do you believe that Ocean Master would win? Do you believe that if Ocean Master ran into Superman in a Superman book that he’d be able to defeat Superman? If you answered no, you are starting to understand exactly what I was saying about win/loss percentage. The characters in this thread have a history of losses that far outweigh their win percentage against the same characters that may have defeated them in the past. Most of the time when Superman has a rematch he goes on to take the win. This is why I asked you if you thought that Gladiator would be able to defeat Anni-Hulk if he faced him again, or if Count Nefaria had to fight Doom again would he win in a rematch? Based upon their track record the answer should be no, whereas in Superman’s case, he usually wins the rematch.
That logic doesn't work bro. We're talking about Superman here. Dc flagship character. The number one character in all of comics, possibly in fiction. Compared to c list characters. Who have less than 1/3 of appearances compared to supes. Obviously the win/loss ratio is going to imbalanced.
Originally posted by Booya_69
That logic doesn't work bro. We're talking about Superman here. Dc flagship character. The number one character in all of comics, possibly in fiction. Compared to c list characters. Who have less than 1/3 of appearances compared to supes. Obviously the win/loss ratio is going to imbalanced.
Precisely why one third of the argument’s topic weighs heavily in Superman’s favor from to start of this debate. However, it does not cover the fact that none of these guys except Gladiator has any type of military, or martial arts training. That is another third of the argument that weighs heavily in Superman’s favor.
Let’s talk about speed once again. Within an atmosphere only the Sentry and Gladiator would be capable of moving within the same time period that Superman was in, the other two would look as if they were lagging far behind to the point that they would not even be able to see what was going on, not to mention be able to defend themselves. You ever lag out while playing a video game online? The same would happen here.
Gladiator can not take a punch on this level. We’ve seen this time and again. What again is his best showing? This was asked several times, with no answer besides wrestling stars off panel, and punching a planet to dust. Who has he defeated other than Ben Grimm, and Nova? I mean who on Darkseid’s level?
Superman can do everything that Gladiator, Count Nefaria, and Hyperion can, but to a vastly greater degree. They’d get pieced up by Superman hitting him as hard as he hits Darkseid. Again we’ve seen Anni-Hulk beat the mess out of Gladiator, and we also saw that the fight between them began fairly. Meaning, that Gladiator was not surprised by a sneak attack. We even saw him strike Anni-Hulk, but was unable to hurt him. When Anni-Hulk attacked, Gladiator was unable to recover, and he went on to absolutely mug him.
Hyperion does not know how to fight. He relies heavily upon his powers to pull him through. This is not enough to stop Superman from KOing him and Count Nefaria who just so happens to be as unskilled as Hyperion. Neither know how to fight. Superman on the other hand has used nerve strikes, and skillful martial arts strikes during the Year One run alone, and has picked up fighting skills from Batman.
The Sentry (or this version of the Sentry) is really too unstable to do much more than he did during the conclusion of the World War Hulk mini. He also has no prior martial arts training.
This is why Superman wins with ease. These guys who have no skill as fighters, and no history of working together would likely trip all over themselves which is a minus coming into this fight from the very start.
Let’s talk about speed again.
Gladiator
What stops Superman from streaking towards Gladiator in under a second and hitting him 100 plus times? Considering his ability to weather a punch, or in this case his inability of weathering a few punches from Anni-Hulk we know that Superman has the power to drop him before even one second passes after combat begins. Superman had a long drawn out conversation with Zod in super speed before even one second passed. This happened when he fought Rogol Zaar.
Count Nefaria & Hyperion.
These two are limited to moving at the speed of sound within an atmosphere. Superman does not have this limitation. Would they even see him KO them within the second that it would take to hit them with similar force as he hits Darkseid with? No right? They’re done. We know that Superman can move at FTL speeds within an atmosphere.
Sentry
Sentry is a conversation away from being cool with everything that transpires, but just in case he isn’t, what stops Superman from hitting him harder than Blue Marvel hit him? This version of the Sentry had no idea that he could use his powers to the extent seen when he was in his Death Seed persona.
Yes, Superman has way more feats than these guys do combined, but we can only go by what was given. We can’t make up times that do not exist to give them a chance here.
They all lose, and badly at that.
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Okay, let's start with this one.https://www.fanverse.org/blogs/fantastic-four-bit-feats-part-5.19565/
4.18 kilotons of energy translates roughly into lifting just under 2 billion tons 1 meter upwards against Earth's surface gravity.
1. Missiles aren't completely solid metal (mostly the skin)
2. Missiles aren't made of iron (much lighter metal alloys)
3. Ben deflected it off course which takes a few tons of force (if that). The missile used its own propulsion to reach the stratosphere.
Give me another.
Note: You have to be very careful with using artwork to determine sizes and distances in comics. A lot of the time the art is not drawn to scale (especially older comics). Artists don't measure their drawings to find correct ratios to other objects in the scene. The draw by feeling and use artistic expression to get the reader to see what's going on. Otherwise, planets and moons would be smaller than actual mountains in some comics. Stars would be smaller than moons, etc.
Originally posted by h1a8
1. Missiles aren't completely solid metal (mostly the skin)
Well it was filled with complex equipment so it probably wouldn't make a significant difference. Suppose I could have included a hollowness factor.
2. Missiles aren't made of iron (much lighter metal alloys)
Possibly, but again recall this was filled with Reed's technology. Also the speed estimate was probably a low end as it was keeping up with Surfer and chasing him all over the world.
3. Ben deflected it off course which takes a few tons of force (if that). The missile used its own propulsion to reach the stratosphere.
Disagree, because:
1. The dialogue directly states that Ben drove it into the stratosphere before it could right itself, not that it propelled itself there
2. Earlier, it was pursuing Surfer he couldn't escape it despite his maneuvering. So if its engines were still fully functional it would be able to correct its course much faster than that.
Give me another.
If you insist. Just be warned, I have a lot of them.
# 91. Ben breaks a slave block which is strong enough to anchor a Skrull battlecruiser:
The original version of the calc I did for this was considered invalid, so let me just quickly do a much more conservative version. If we use the weight of a RL Kirov-class battlecruiser (which should be a huge lowball since an interstellar spaceship would be far larger), the weight is 24,300 tons. In order to "anchor" a spaceship, you have to keep it from taking off. At minimum, the ships engines have to be powerful enough to propel it to escape velocity. So the kinetic energy comes out to 1.524096e+15 joules, which is equivalent to lifting over 170 billion tons 1 meter upwards in Earth's surface gravity.
Note: You have to be very careful with using artwork to determine sizes and distances in comics. A lot of the time the art is not drawn to scale (especially older comics). Artists don't measure their drawings to find correct ratios to other objects in the scene. The draw by feeling and use artistic expression to get the reader to see what's going on. Otherwise, planets and moons would be smaller than actual mountains in some comics. Stars would be smaller than moons, etc.
Of course I know that, but I do the best with what I have, and we have established several rules for scaling (for example, you can't scale the curvature of the Earth or another planet from a shot within the atmosphere, because that is almost always distorted).
Originally posted by carver9
🤦🏿
Show me how any of these characters are superior. Where are their battle feats? Count Nefaria has the best combat feats out of the group of Superman clones, while Sentry has the most combat feats of the group. However his feats aren’t plentiful enough. He does have the Terrax feat, which makes him automatically more impressive than Gladiator.
Can you find any good combat feats with these guys? I’m just telling it like it is.
Originally posted by Stoic
Precisely why one third of the argument’s topic weighs heavily in Superman’s favor from to start of this debate. However, it does not cover the fact that none of these guys except Gladiator has any type of military, or martial arts training. That is another third of the argument that weighs heavily in Superman’s favor.Let’s talk about speed once again. Within an atmosphere only the Sentry and Gladiator would be capable of moving within the same time period that Superman was in, the other two would look as if they were lagging far behind to the point that they would not even be able to see what was going on, not to mention be able to defend themselves. You ever lag out while playing a video game online? The same would happen here.
Gladiator can not take a punch on this level. We’ve seen this time and again. What again is his best showing? This was asked several times, with no answer besides wrestling stars off panel, and punching a planet to dust. Who has he defeated other than Ben Grimm, and Nova? I mean who on Darkseid’s level?
Superman can do everything that Gladiator, Count Nefaria, and Hyperion can, but to a vastly greater degree. They’d get pieced up by Superman hitting him as hard as he hits Darkseid. Again we’ve seen Anni-Hulk beat the mess out of Gladiator, and we also saw that the fight between them began fairly. Meaning, that Gladiator was not surprised by a sneak attack. We even saw him strike Anni-Hulk, but was unable to hurt him. When Anni-Hulk attacked, Gladiator was unable to recover, and he went on to absolutely mug him.
Hyperion does not know how to fight. He relies heavily upon his powers to pull him through. This is not enough to stop Superman from KOing him and Count Nefaria who just so happens to be as unskilled as Hyperion. Neither know how to fight. Superman on the other hand has used nerve strikes, and skillful martial arts strikes during the Year One run alone, and has picked up fighting skills from Batman.
The Sentry (or this version of the Sentry) is really too unstable to do much more than he did during the conclusion of the World War Hulk mini. He also has no prior martial arts training.
This is why Superman wins with ease. These guys who have no skill as fighters, and no history of working together would likely trip all over themselves which is a minus coming into this fight from the very start.
Let’s talk about speed again.
Gladiator
What stops Superman from streaking towards Gladiator in under a second and hitting him 100 plus times? Considering his ability to weather a punch, or in this case his inability of weathering a few punches from Anni-Hulk we know that Superman has the power to drop him before even one second passes after combat begins. Superman had a long drawn out conversation with Zod in super speed before even one second passed. This happened when he fought Rogol Zaar.Count Nefaria & Hyperion.
These two are limited to moving at the speed of sound within an atmosphere. Superman does not have this limitation. Would they even see him KO them within the second that it would take to hit them with similar force as he hits Darkseid with? No right? They’re done. We know that Superman can move at FTL speeds within an atmosphere.Sentry
Sentry is a conversation away from being cool with everything that transpires, but just in case he isn’t, what stops Superman from hitting him harder than Blue Marvel hit him? This version of the Sentry had no idea that he could use his powers to the extent seen when he was in his Death Seed persona.Yes, Superman has way more feats than these guys do combined, but we can only go by what was given. We can’t make up times that do not exist to give them a chance here.
They all lose, and badly at that.
C list characters get c list treatment. We all know gladiator jobs alot, but we know where he stands in terms of power. We seen superman go all out against mongul in a fight that went from planet to planet. Impressive display of power no doubt, but superman admitted he couldn't defeat him.
We've seen brb and stardust fight in a similar manner. Their fight was also a galaxy level fight as they went from planet to planet even destroying some in their battle. Can you guess who beat brb in a single page? That's right, gladiator did.
Jane thor took it to Odin and mangog. Can you guess who restrained jane thor by her throat? That's right, gladiator did.
Nope gladiator hasn't defeated darksied. Can you guess who's strength is greatly respected by Thanos? You guessed it buddy. Gladiator is right. Gladiator had a prolonged fight against Hyperion and they were fighting in nanoseconds. He's also crossed a galaxy in a blink of an eye. We know he's super fast by comic standards given that red and blue blur he leaves as he flies. Just like Superman.
Your stuck on lowballling him. Wasnt annihulk an amped version?
Hyperion freaking stopped two planets from colliding with each other at high speeds. He took down multiple builders and gained respect from thor. I'm sure his combat skills are adequate enough to engage superman.
Does Sentry need expert combat skills when he can give himself new super powers? Talking him out of fight is not a given either. You can't just dismiss it as an absolute (I addressed this earlier)
Honestly I haven't even picked a winner, but to act like this a cakewalk for clark is ridiculous.
