Abortion

Originally posted by Fiery Eyes
There is no comparison, a squid and a human life. When a lady knows she's pregnant, at that very moment she has life in her growing, surviving, living, developing, and if that baby is aborted it is murder, i honestly don't get (and i'm not being rude, I honetly don't get this) how people can even justify killing an innocent baby growing inside of them.

...So? Tell me again what makes a tiny, mindless speck of a fetus with no sense of consciousness more important than a squid? I could tell you that I don't get how people can even justify killing an innocent mollusk living its life out in the ocean... ('course I won't 'cos I like eating calamari 😉)

Also, there are many other things that are killed all the time that are MUCH more intelligent beings than a damn little lump of cells. Take horses for example, there's some alarming number of horses that are killed in the US each year for human consumption overseas. And I know from experience that horses are very intelligent animals. But I don't see you complaining about that. 🙄

were talking about life, wich you are able to talk about cuz YOUR parents did NOT get an abortion. There is no comparrison to animals.

Originally posted by Fiery Eyes
So, instead of being adpoted you'd rather hve been killed. hmm It's easy for a living human being to say that.

Originally posted by Tptmanno1
No instead of him being abandoned by his parents, or becoming a drug addict or whatever, then The decision lies with the parents, I'm not gonna say yes, but I do think the option should be there.

So, this being a LIFE has no essence on rather or not they shld have a choice or not? You are trying to predict what kind of bad life the baby would have, when the baby could have a wonderful life, but you woldn't know that cuz you're aborting the baby, right?

Originally posted by Tptmanno1
No instead of him being abandoned by his parents, or becoming a drug addict or whatever, then The decision lies with the parents, I'm not gonna say yes, but I do think the option should be there.

my parents told me straigt off the bat i was 2 seconds away from being aborted and both my mum and father used drugs afterwards and my father left.... I love my life and i feel bad for all the people on this earth with that kind of mentallity.... 😬 ...

Originally posted by Fiery Eyes
So, this being a LIFE has no essence on rather or not they shld have a choice or not? You are trying to predict what kind of bad life the baby would have, when the baby could have a wonderful life, but you woldn't know that cuz you're aborting the baby, right?

Dammit stop mis quoting me!

I said that the option should be there, I never said it should be an easy descision. I was only giving justification for WHY that option should be there.

NOW thats an awsome thing RAVENTHEONLY, to see what a great decision your parents made to keep you. LIFE

Originally posted by Tptmanno1
Dammit stop mis quoting me!

I said that the option should be there, I never said it should be an easy descision. I was only giving justification for WHY that option should be there.

🙂 I did not misquote you! I asked you if thats what you were saying. I don't thk there shld ever be that option, which is probably pretty evident by my responses.

Originally posted by Fiery Eyes
were talking about life, wich you are able to talk about cuz YOUR parents did NOT get an abortion. There is no comparrison to animals.

Err... Yes, there is. Believe me when I say that I have known animals in the past who were WAY more intelligent than the average fetus.

And again, I could say the same thing in a different context. Many newborn foals are killed each year because they are "premarin" foals (they need pregnant mare urine to make some kinda medication... any kind will do, so the foals are usually worth nothing and are killed very soon after birth). The average young horse is much more receptive and self-conscious than the typical human fetus. I really don't see a difference.

One reason why the freedom of choice is so important, is that it helps to preserve the safety of potentially pregnant women. I have/had two cousins: one who nearly died at childbirth, and one who did die during childbirth. These were people with supportive families who made sure all of the necessary precautions were taken, but they still couldn't protect against such unforseen difficulties. No woman should be forced to go through a pregnancy, seeing that it can potentially kill them, or significantly harm them in many ways.

It is not simply a choice between adoption and abortion. It is a choice that potentially involves death on all sides, and horrible suffering by all parties. The process of pregnancy is not just a pretty concept that you see on a Hallmark card. You cannot force pregnancy on anyone, and if you feel that you must, then you always have the option to move to some backward country that shares your skewed and poorly-reasoned moralistic views. It may seem that I'm just angry, but I'm actually serious. There are plenty of countries in this world that shares your views. You can move to one of those instead of trying to change this countries Constitution to fit your religious beliefs.

And if you don't respect all life, including the horses which you seem to think are less important than an undeveloped fetus, then you certainly have no foot to stand on. You are the one who is denegrating "life." Once you give up eating animals, then you'll have the beginnings of a valid standpoint, even though your argument will remain flawed. You assume that God has given a soul to a fetus at conception, yet you have nothing to back this up but empty rhetoric. You assume that aborting a pregnancy interferes with "God's Design," yet you have no evidence to back it up.

Try analyzing your beliefs. Do you have these "values" because your right-wing parents raised you well and you adopted their values in turn, without thinking for yourself? Or rather, were your parents extremely liberal, and you decided sub-consciously that this would be a good way to rebel against them? How old are you? Are you married? Does your husband do all of the thinking for you and gives you "talking points" to respond to people who you disagree with? Were you abused? Is it possible that you are projecting your own fears of having been aborted, and therefore would not currently exist? If you are afraid of that concept, that's understandable, but you never had a "right" to be born in the first place. As a woman, do you have disdain for the way that the modern woman exists? Does that make you want to control her by taking away her right to choose? Do you reject the concepts of science that relate to truth and life because you think they are mistaken, or is it because you don't understand them? In the end, you'll probably dismiss the possibility that you're wrong, so you'll always fail. I remain open-minded, looking for holes in my logic, and trying to find ways in which I am wrong. I am honest with myself and others, and that is why I will win this debate no matter what; because I won't dismiss reason and truth just because of instilled "values," rhetorical nonsense, or words on a page in a book, which have nothing to back them up.

Analyze your own thought processes, and find out why you feel such restrictive and repressive feelings. Then you can begin the healing process for you own mind. 🙂

^Good post 👆

Wow!
Insanly good!

Great post, Surgent ✅

I believe that the choice should be available. I mean, what if it's a case where a woman was raped? Or if they know that going through childbirth could kill the mother?

And yes, this is a personal issue for me...both my mother and myself nearly died when she was giving birth to me.

FE> “when you can detect a heart beat, it's life, and to abort that life is murder.”
Well then… Then let’s just remove the foetus and let it lie on a table. See if it can survive without the woman’s body.
Guess what – it CAN’T. The woman isn’t just some fancy breeding machine, while the cells grow inside of her. Her body supports and nourishes the foetus, gives it food, water and oxygen. It’s the woman’s body – what happens to it is HER decision.
Humans have a heart-beat. But you’re pro-death penalty. Hypocrite.

And again: You’re one of those people who think that the INSTANT a woman gets pregnant it’s a tiny miniature baby in her womb, right?

Darth> Good to know… Do your fish hold strange rituals by plastic volcanoes as well??? 😄

Of course most animals are more intelligent than your average foetus. For the simple reason that the a foetus’ brain won’t be worth much, until far later in the pregnancy.

Darth surgent> Great post, but FE won’t get half of it I’m afraid.

Pregnancies are being forced on Catholics in all parts of the world. Contraceptives like condoms are forbidden in AIDS-ridden areas even, and in places with too many people, starvation or droughts.
Above ALL abortion helps equality between the genders.

Originally posted by darth_surgent
And if you don't respect [b]all life, including the horses which you seem to think are less important than an undeveloped fetus, then you certainly have no foot to stand on. You are the one who is denegrating "life." Once you give up eating animals, then you'll have the beginnings of a valid standpoint, even though your argument will remain flawed. You assume that God has given a soul to a fetus at conception, yet you have nothing to back this up but empty rhetoric. You assume that aborting a pregnancy interferes with "God's Design," yet you have no evidence to back it up.[/B]

That's exactly what I was getting at when I was talking about the chickens...but it didn't come out so well articulated. Good job.

Originally posted by Fiery Eyes
were talking about life, wich you are able to talk about cuz YOUR parents did NOT get an abortion. There is no comparrison to animals.

Now you don't consider animals to be alive? Animals don't have lives? Is that what you are saying? That's the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

Indeed, AF... And hey, I just realized, technically a human fetus isn't even living. To be living, an organism has to be made of cells (or a cell), be capable of reproduction on its own or with the help of another specimen of its species (a fetus isn't), and be capable of moving voluntarily (which as far as I know, a fetus can't either).

Originally posted by Darth Revan
Indeed, AF... And hey, I just realized, technically a human fetus isn't even living. To be living, an organism has to be made of cells (or a cell), be capable of reproduction on its own or with the help of another specimen of its species (a fetus isn't), and be capable of moving voluntarily (which as far as I know, a fetus can't either).

😑 i am astonished at that statement.... a fetus has its own DNA code and many cells..... it is not able to reproduce because it is not fully developed yet... thats like saying a girl or boy below 13 is not living because they haven't hit puberty yet... 😬 .... and not being able to move on its own? ... whoo says it doesn't? ever heard of the baby kicking or stirring in the womb during a sonagram? 😬

But at the point where a baby kicks and stirs, it is really too fully developed for an abortion to be a safe procedure. That's not to say it ever is, there's always an element of risk involved, but I believe there is a law that says an abortion can't be attempted beyond a certain point...

Anyways, I personally don't think a fetus is non-living, it's just that if we're going to change the definition of life so that it doesn't include animals, we shouldn't include human fetuses either. Because FE did imply that squid and horses are not "living" and that a fetus has more "rights" than an animal.

Originally posted by Darth Revan
Because FE did imply that squid and horses are not "living" and that a fetus has more "rights" than an animal.

which is utterly ridiculous.

Originally posted by The Omega
FE> “when you can detect a heart beat, it's life, and to abort that life is murder.”
Well then… Then let’s just remove the foetus and let it lie on a table. See if it can survive without the woman’s body.
Guess what – it CAN’T. The woman isn’t just some fancy breeding machine, while the cells grow inside of her. Her body supports and nourishes the foetus, gives it food, water and oxygen. It’s the woman’s body – what happens to it is HER decision.
Humans have a heart-beat. But you’re pro-death penalty. Hypocrite.

And again: You’re one of those people who think that the INSTANT a woman gets pregnant it’s a tiny miniature baby in her womb, right?

Darth> Good to know… Do your fish hold strange rituals by plastic volcanoes as well??? 😄

Of course most animals are more intelligent than your average foetus. For the simple reason that the a foetus’ brain won’t be worth much, until far later in the pregnancy.

Darth surgent> Great post, but FE won’t get half of it I’m afraid.

Pregnancies are being forced on Catholics in all parts of the world. Contraceptives like condoms are forbidden in AIDS-ridden areas even, and in places with too many people, starvation or droughts.
Above ALL abortion helps equality between the genders.

But you’re pro-death penalty. Hypocrite. ??????????????? what does that mean?????????????????????????????????????
I've never said i was for the death penalty, EVER!!!!! You are putting words in my mouth, in your so called post!!

It is Life in you, I never said it could live w/o the woman, EVER, but that doesn't change the fact that it is life. and innocent live at that.