Abortion

Originally posted by FeceMan
I can enforce my decisions and beliefs on others because I have the right to vote on such issues.

It does have something to do with me. If I were to vote pro-choice, I would be involved in orchestrating countless unnecessary deaths.

There's a reason humans have consciences.

Con-science. Like, against science. So even if something goes against cold, hard facts, it brings us to action. Let's say Hitler was right and blond-haired, blue-eyed boys > all other kinds. Scientifically proven. Genetic testing and all. Would you stand against him? Or would you let science tell you that it was okay because they were lessers?

Well then your vote is your action.

You have absolutely no right to take it to a level of individual involvement. Absolutely not.

Your conscience would be affected because you have chosen to take it upon yourself to care for everyone else and their cells due to your beliefs. YOUR...BELIEFS. Someone who does not share the same beliefs, does not share the same way of life and as a result, does not share the same mindset.

So you have no right to inflict, that's fact.

That Hitler analogy is EXTREMELY flawed. Because if it was all scientifically, genetically and undoubtledly proven, then that would be it. Like it's scientifically, genetically and undoubtedly proven that it's not a baby or a human.

I'm not so naive as to debate fact because I'm sure that my beliefs are right.

Fact is fact.

Originally posted by bilb
ok no need to result to name calling.. vaya is entitled to her view altho its not one i personally subscribe to.. there are reasons behind both sides of the debate, each valid to the one arguing it.. fact of the matter is that there is NO way at this point to determine when life actually begins scientifically.. i know that ONE day science will be able to answer this but we arent there yet... until then each person must make up their mind individually, for those who are prolife i would say this.. were I to have an abortion it would be MY chioce and if you believe in God .. it would be MY ass on the line come judgement day.. so while your concern is appreciated its stil my choice and I am the one facing the consequences.. but its this kind of hostility that leads to the murder of clinic workers and the like and THAT is NOT acceptable

Pretty essay.

Irrelevant, but pretty.

Wanna tell me where I resorted to name calling? Or where I said that Vaya couldn't have the opinion? Coz I've said the opposite many times.

Also Fece, where these threats of violence came in. Because I think you're overreacting. As I was speaking hypothetically about an impossible (nearly) situation.

-AC

[/B][/QUOTE]

You are being so ignorant. Most people who go into abortions KNOW of the other choices, they just don't WANT them.

you know this for a fact do you?

Right on. What if she says "Thanks, but I have decided on abortion"?

then thats her choice

Your opinion is that you care for people you've never met. It's a silly opinion but you're entitled to it. What you need to realise, as I continue to say, is that you haven't got the right to become part of someone's life decisions because of your choice to care.

so what? we should have a world where EVERYONE only looks out for number one? thats lovely

I know you're no brick wall, but I feel as though I'm speaking to one.

low blow dude

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Ok, so let's look at what you just said.

"Your wrong there is something i can do about it. Talk whoever it is, and tell them there are other choices."

Right on. What if she says "Thanks, but I have decided on abortion"?

You are being so ignorant. Most people who go into abortions KNOW of the other choices, they just don't WANT them.

Stop being so self absorbed as to believe that they're all uneducated.

They know more about what they want than you do.

Your opinion is that you care for people you've never met. It's a silly opinion but you're entitled to it. What you need to realise, as I continue to say, is that you haven't got the right to become part of someone's life decisions because of your choice to care.

Why? Because it has...once again, NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU.

I know you're no brick wall, but I feel as though I'm speaking to one.

-AC

So What if i care??? It is crime?

I would tell them anyways, even if they don't take my advice. So what? I tried. Some girls might be doing because they are scared. Scared of their parents, or of the other person who was involved. Who knows why? Thats not the point.

Point is I would try to help in any way I can.

You are not talking to a brick wall. I hear every word you write, and I understand it. Just don't believe it. I've said several times now if you don't like it then don't read it.

I'm not trying to get all over you on your options just stating what I believe, and that is all.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Pretty essay.

Irrelevant, but pretty.

Wanna tell me where I resorted to name calling? Or where I said that Vaya couldn't have the opinion? Coz I've said the opposite many times.

-AC

its totally relevant AND accurate if you;d like to research it before opening your MALE mouth which has NO friggin bearing on this thanks.... grow a uterus & get back to me would ya?

and i think this counts as name calling to vaya :

Now if you remove the literal baton from your rectum, we can move on

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Well then your vote is your action.

You have absolutely no right to take it to a level of individual involvement. Absolutely not.

Your conscience would be affected because you have chosen to take it upon yourself to care for everyone else and their cells due to your beliefs. YOUR...BELIEFS. Someone who does not share the same beliefs, does not share the same way of life and as a result, does not share the same mindset.

So you have no right to inflict, that's fact.

That Hitler analogy is EXTREMELY flawed. Because if it was all scientifically, genetically and undoubtledly proven, then that would be it. Like it's scientifically, genetically and undoubtedly proven that it's not a baby or a human.

I'm not so naive as to debate fact because I'm sure that my beliefs are right.

Fact is fact.

Pretty essay.

Irrelevant, but pretty.

Wanna tell me where I resorted to name calling? Or where I said that Vaya couldn't have the opinion? Coz I've said the opposite many times.

Also Fece, where these threats of violence came in. Because I think you're overreacting. As I was speaking hypothetically about an impossible (nearly) situation.

-AC

What do you mean 'individual level'? I believe I missed part of the debate...

How is the Hitler analogy flawed? Would you allow the genocide to happen or would you not? Or maybe you'd like to talk about Alphas, Betas, Deltas, Gammas, and Epsilons. Since the Alphas are all superior (highly so) to the Epsilons, isn't it okay that the Epsilons' lives suck? Would it be acceptable to kill four Epsilons in order to save one Alpha?

By the way, bilb, the literal baton thing was directed at me.

Originally posted by bilb
you know this for a fact do you?

You know I claimed it as fact, do you?

Originally posted by bilb
then thats her choice

Exactly.

Originally posted by bilb
so what? we should have a world where EVERYONE only looks out for number one? thats lovely

I'm all for fantasising about how perfect the world could be if we all loved each other.

I, however. Live in the world that exists.

I care for myself, those close to me and those I love. Nobody else.

If you chose to, I find that utterly ridiculous and pointless but that's your choice. As it is Vaya's, as it is Fece's.

However, you have no right to force those views on others. If a woman wants an abortion, and is set on having one. You have no right to convince her otherwise.

Originally posted by vaya_the_elf
So What if i care??? It is crime?

I would tell them anyways, even if they don't take my advice. So what? I tried. Some girls might be doing because they are scared. Scared of their parents, or of the other person who was involved. Who knows why? Thats not the point.

Point is I would try to help in any way I can.

You are not talking to a brick wall. I hear every word you write, and I understand it. Just don't believe it. I've said several times now if you don't like it then don't read it.

I'm not trying to get all over you on your options just stating what I believe, and that is all.

No, no it's not. It's admirable. However, approached and used wrong, it can do more harm than good.

Ok, your whole rationale is "I wanna help". Right, well then you tell all the girls that there are other opinions. Tell them, don't try to convince them, because that would be wrong. If it makes you happier to be so ignorant to assume that people are blind to other choices, go for it.

The point is, you are acting as though these women have no clue about other choices. If they do and they don't want them, that's it.

If they DON'T know about other choices and STILL want abortion, that's it.

That's all I'm saying. You wanna TRY to help? Fine. You need to realise that there's a fine line between help and hinderance.

If a woman chooses abortion, you need to respect that and let her have her choice.

-AC

hmm, rather intriguing how you pick & choose what to respond to AC..

Originally posted by bilb
hmm, rather intriguing how you pick & choose what to respond to AC..

Originally posted by vaya_the_elf
.

Point is I would try to help in any way I can.

You are not talking to a brick wall. I hear every word you write, and I understand it. Just don't believe it. I've said several times now if you don't like it then don't read it.

Again this is all I have to say for your post

Originally posted by bilb
its totally relevant AND accurate if you;d like to research it before opening your MALE mouth which has NO friggin bearing on this thanks.... grow a uterus & get back to me would ya?

Yeah, coz women reproduce a-sexually. Way to crack and become a sexist. Step out.

Originally posted by bilb
and i think this counts as name calling to vaya :

Seeing as I was refering - in slight joke - to Feceman (as he acknowledged and probably realised it was sarcastic humour), I think you better either apologise for assuming or quietly leave 🙂.

Originally posted by FeceMan
I think we're talking about two different things, now.

What do you mean 'individual level'? I believe I missed part of the debate...

How is the Hitler analogy flawed? Would you allow the genocide to happen or would you not? Or maybe you'd like to talk about Alphas, Betas, Deltas, Gammas, and Epsilons. Since the Alphas are all superior (highly so) to the Epsilons, isn't it okay that the Epsilons' lives suck? Would it be acceptable to kill four Epsilons in order to save one Alpha?

By individual level I mean that because you vote for pro-life, doesn't mean you can singularly impose your beliefs on a single female. Your vote is your action on the matter. It should stop there.

Well Alpha's rarely need saving (how ironic). If the Alpha is more valueable than the four Epsilons, yes.

You, Vaya, you all emphasise caring, right?

Try caring for those already here instead of an unborn not-human foetus.

-AC

Originally posted by vaya_the_elf
Again this is all I have to say for your post

Yes.

You don't believe it? You don't believe that you should leave women to do what they want?

I've clearly said that if you wanna be helpful harriet, go for it. You also need to respect that people might have:

A) Made their decision.

or

B) Not want your help.

When you do that, we can move on.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
.

You, Vaya, you all emphasise caring, right?

Try caring for those already here instead of an unborn not-human foetus.

-AC

I do already 😛

Originally posted by FeceMan
I think we're talking about two different things, now.

What do you mean 'individual level'? I believe I missed part of the debate...

How is the Hitler analogy flawed? Would you allow the genocide to happen or would you not? Or maybe you'd like to talk about Alphas, Betas, Deltas, Gammas, and Epsilons. Since the Alphas are all superior (highly so) to the Epsilons, isn't it okay that the Epsilons' lives suck? Would it be acceptable to kill four Epsilons in order to save one Alpha?

By the way, bilb, the literal baton thing was directed at me.

Vaya, if you really enjoy helping people, perhaps you should become a counceler or somesort, for one of those hotlines that girls who are considering abortion can call and ask for advice.

Most people don't want advice just given to them, unless they ask for it. If you just go up to a woman who is going to get an abortion and start babbling about the "other options" she has, it would be very tacky and patronizing and would probably piss her off something awful, because it's as if you're assuming she doesn't already know of the other options (which she almost definately does). They don't make the decision lightly.

It's incredibly annoying when people start babbling to you about morals and shit like that when you don't ask for their opinion. So, if you really want to help naive people when it comes to abortion, work at a hotline, otherwise, it isn't a good idea to start blabbing to a woman who is going to get an abortion, unless you want a quick foot to the face.

Originally posted by FeceMan

By the way, bilb, the literal baton thing was directed at me.

k, sorry.. my bad

Exactly.

Like I said before, most people don't actually want some nobody's advice. Because while you care for them despite not having met them, they, most likely, don't really want to let a random person force them to make a decision regarding their life.

Learn this.

Fece, I replied to your post. I've got one whip and three people to spank, chill 😉.

PS: Bilb, I'll take that "my bad" as an "I'm sorry, Alpha" 🙂.

-AC

Originally posted by BackFire
Vaya, if you really enjoy helping people, perhaps you should become a counceler or somesort, for one of those hotlines that girls who are considering abortion can call and ask for advice.

Most people don't want advice just given to them, unless they ask for it. If you just go up to a woman who is going to get an abortion and start babbling about the "other options" she has, it would be very tacky and patronizing and would probably piss her off something awful, because it's as if you're assuming she doesn't already know of the other options (which she almost definately does). They don't make the decision lightly.

It's incredibly annoying when people start babbling to you about morals and shit like that when you don't ask for their opinion. So, if you really want to help naive people when it comes to abortion, work at a hotline, otherwise, it isn't a good idea to start blabbing to a woman who is going to get an abortion, unless you want a quick foot to the face.

I know most people don't want advice, but my point is I will try anyways.

For me morals are important, and thats what I believe. Thats why I stated them here. Not to annoy anyone, but to put into this debate everyone is in. Thats all.

Not my fault everyone jumped on my views.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yeah, coz women reproduce a-sexually. Way to crack and become a sexist. Step out.

Seeing as I was refering - in slight joke - to Feceman (as he acknowledged and probably realised it was sarcastic humour), I think you better either apologise for assuming or quietly leave 🙂.

-AC

Sorry I dont tell you when to get castrated .. you dont tell me what to do with my womb.. mmmmmmkay?

and I did apologize as soon as I realized I was wrong and ohh pretty please just try & make me leave

Originally posted by vaya_the_elf
I know most people don't want advice, but my point is I will try anyways.

Why? If you KNOW they don't want it. Why interject yourself where you're not wanted? It's ignorant, patronising and selfish.

Originally posted by vaya_the_elf
For me morals are important, and thats what I believe. Thats why I stated them here. Not to annoy anyone, but to put into this debate everyone is in. Thats all.

Not my fault everyone jumped on my views.

Stop all this "My views, my views".

No offence, but while you're entitled to your views, they're wrong.

Plain and simple. Wrong.

-AC

I agree with AC there, people can make there decision, if you want to help sure try but know that people might not want your help.

As for the Epsilon thing I'd say actually it would be the right decision to save the Alpha since the Epsilons are not valueabl at all.