I believe it to be wrong, I see it as murder.
I wouldn't want anyone telling what to do with my body, though, so in some cases, such as rape, I support it.
I don't think a woman who has unprotected sex without using protection should not have an abortion, IMO she doesn't deserve one.
Abortion drug RU486 is a human pesticide.
It seems all women care about is themselves, and their 'right' to decide whether someone lives or dies. NO ONE should have such power.
Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
As Doug Stanhope said, 'Every life is worth saving...unless your dad's an a$$hole'.Bit of an illogical opinion.
Not everyone who is pro life is 100% pro life. I have never been 100% against abortion.
It would be sick and cruel to force a rape victim to give birth to her rapists child. It's wrong to force someone to give birth to a baby that will die shortly after birth, or that will have brain damage.
There are alot of things to take into account.
Also, abortion kills a human, AC, so whether you like it or not, abortion is murder. Just that all the pro choice groups refuse to admit it because they don't want to feel guilty.
Originally posted by Makedde
Not everyone who is pro life is 100% pro life. I have never been 100% against abortion.It would be sick and cruel to force a rape victim to give birth to her rapists child. It's wrong to force someone to give birth to a baby that will die shortly after birth, or that will have brain damage.
There are alot of things to take into account.
Also, abortion kills a human, AC, so whether you like it or not, abortion is murder. Just that all the pro choice groups refuse to admit it because they don't want to feel guilty.
A) You're either for killing or you're against it. Being against killing SOMETIMES just makes you a hypocrite with no valid opinion.
B) Sick and cruel is trying to force a woman, any woman, to have a baby she doesn't want. It's none of your business.
C) It kills an unborn foetus. It doesn't have A LIFE. There is a difference.
Abortion is not murder, at all. It has nothing to do with wanting to admit anything, it's not murder.
If you cared so much about life, you'd care about the people that are already here, already have lives and could very well get them messed up by giving birth.
Either way I've cleared this table before. Someone else can do the honours this time.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
A) You're either for killing or you're against it. Being against killing SOMETIMES just makes you a hypocrite with no valid opinion.
-AC
If a person is pro life, you think they must be against ALL abortion, the death penalty, and euthanasia? Not the case. I support euthanasia.
If women took responsiblity for themselves, used protection, they wouldn't need abortions. Simple as that. If you are going to refuse contraception, have unprotected sex, you should suffer the consequences.
What about all these people on IVF? They actually WANT children, and they have to pay for IVF, it isn't free for them, but abortion is.
It's free to kill your child but you must pay to creat one.
Abortion is murder, whether it's a fetus or not doesn't matter. Abortion is murder, as I said, pro choice groups refuse to admit that because it would make them feel guilty.
Originally posted by Makedde
If a person is pro life, you think they must be against ALL abortion, the death penalty, and euthanasia? Not the case. I support euthanasia.If women took responsiblity for themselves, used protection, they wouldn't need abortions. Simple as that. If you are going to refuse contraception, have unprotected sex, you should suffer the consequences.
What about all these people on IVF? They actually WANT children, and they have to pay for IVF, it isn't free for them, but abortion is.
It's free to kill your child but you must pay to creat one.
Abortion is murder, whether it's a fetus or not doesn't matter. Abortion is murder, as I said, pro choice groups refuse to admit that because it would make them feel guilty.
If you're against killing, you should be against it totally. You can't say "Killing a foetus?! That's wrong!" then say "Oh...she was raped? Ok cool, kill it." You just can't. You can't be pro-life and for execution, it's that simple.
There are women who abuse the right to abortions, there are women who use abortions as a quick fix, yes. Do I agree with this? No. However, it's THEIR choice to do what they want. It has NOTHING to do with you, me, or anyone else. Don't punish women who want abortions responsibly just because idiots are going to abuse the right to it. It's contradictory and hypocritical.
If you want a child so bad, but you can't have one, then I don't give a shit what you do. IVF, adoption, it's YOUR choice. Just like abortion is.
Abortion is not murder. Murder is killing with premeditated intent or malice, unlawfully, by exact definition. This is not what abortion is, pro-lifers convince themselves of that so they have a stupid excuse to force their beliefs on others.
You are wrong. It's the woman's body, it's none of your business what she does with it. If you loved human life, why not love the woman who's life will be ruined by having the baby? She's already here, she's already got a life.
-AC
Hmmm. There was already an abortion thread somewhere. A merger might be on the cards.
As to the drug RU486 it's unfortunate it's become a debate about abortion. It wasn't meant to be about whether abortion is right or wrong. It was a vote about whether the health minister should be allowed to veto it's release temporarily, which I think is correct as it has been linked to deaths in the US of those who take it. It seems like common sense not to push it through until such a time as it is proven reasonably safe or not.
But instead it comes down to pro/anti abortion stances getting in the way of due process. If your for it's release without waiting for findings your accused of being pro abortion, if you want to wait your accused of being pro-life anti choice. Damn politicians.
Umm.....I stated it was killing AC and it is, so please don't come in here and try to specifically tell me that I'm wrong. Yeah, I know why you made that little statement at the end.
When one is getting rid of it, they're killing it, they're definitely not loving it. Sticking candy inside for it to suck on. And if it has no life, what's the point of an abortion, I mean isn't that the whole point of abortion to prevent life.
is it comprehensible.....
Re: Abortion?
Originally posted by sithsaber408
I posted in another thread about the fact that my generation (age 18-25) has had about 1/3 of it's members aborted. 🙁(I looked back for 8 pages and only saw a thread for parental notification, so if one already exists, my apologies.)
Indeed, there is another thread about abortion. The search function is your friend.
1/3, eh? Well, it's too bad that the generations before you can't post such numbers. (most likely they can) We need less people in this world. Less people to feed, educate, house, support, etc.
People who oppose abortion based on the "murder of gods creation" thing seem to have little faith in their own god. I always hear this argument that "oh, what if that aborted baby would have grown up to
cure cancer?" Well, the old ladies carrying picket signs are shit out of luck on that one, and I think if god intended for a baby to cure cancer that he could plan ahead and send that baby to parents that actually want children.
I mean, what if Mary and Joseph had said "you know, we have enough children to feed. Let's just skip this one." Would god have not planned ahead? Would he not have sent the baby to another family after that?
I don't see those babies as wasted life, I see their absence as a way of getting the freeway moving faster.
Besides, if 1/3 of 18 to 25 year olds aren't here, then maybe it's gods will. It is less work to do for the rapture. You know, the return of baby Jesus that's just around the corner....and has been for the last two thousand years.
1/3, eh? Well, it's too bad that the generations before you can't post such numbers. (most likely they can) We need less people in this world. Less people to feed, educate, house, support, etc.
Reminds me of something that happened a couple of days ago. One of our federal politicians, Danna Vale, with all this debate about the abortion drug came out and said how Australians are being foolish and aborting themselves out of existence which could lead to Muslims taking over, as they have lots of children.
Most peoples response to this was "WTF? Where did this come from, isn't the debate emotive and controversial enough for you Danna?" Incidentally she is also the politician who wanted to build a a theme park recreation of Gallipoli on the Australian coast.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Consider me "most people".
Same here. I honestly don't know how people like that get elected. They do nothing, not a thing, except occasionally come out of left field and say things that are bizarre and inflammatory. Then it's back in the box until some future debate that doesn't need their input arises.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=306413&highlight=abortion
Definitely one of the larger threads here.
Search is your friend 🙂
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
If you're against killing, you should be against it totally. You can't say "Killing a foetus?! That's wrong!" then say "Oh...she was raped? Ok cool, kill it." You just can't. You can't be pro-life and for execution, it's that simple.
I know many pro lifers who support abortion in certain circumstances. Just because you think that someone who is pro life must be against ALL killing is just immature on your part.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
There are women who abuse the right to abortions, there are women who use abortions as a quick fix, yes. Do I agree with this? No. However, it's THEIR choice to do what they want. It has NOTHING to do with you, me, or anyone else. Don't punish women who want abortions responsibly just because idiots are going to abuse the right to it. It's contradictory and hypocritical.
It may be their choice, but they need to be taught to use contraception. They make themselves look like sluts if they don't.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Abortion is not murder. Murder is killing with premeditated intent or malice, unlawfully, by exact definition. This is not what abortion is, pro-lifers convince themselves of that so they have a stupid excuse to force their beliefs on others.
Women who have abortions have them because they don't want a baby. They deliberatly have that baby killed. That's premeditation. Abortion kills, murder kills. Abortion is murder, whether you care to admit it or not.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You are wrong. It's the woman's body, it's none of your business what she does with it. If you loved human life, why not love the woman who's life will be ruined by having the baby? She's already here, she's already got a life.
Women have a choice to use contraception. They choose not too, they get pregnant, what right do they have to kill the resukt of their irresponsiblity?
It takes to make a baby, the man should be involved. It sickens me that women just abort their lovers child, and don't think he has any right to know about it. I'd sure as hell want to know if someone aborted MY child.
Originally posted by Makedde
I know many pro lifers who support abortion in certain circumstances. Just because you think that someone who is pro life must be against ALL killing is just immature on your part.
No, you're just stupid. You can't be PRO-LIFE and FOR the ending of it.
Originally posted by Makedde
It may be their choice, but they need to be taught to use contraception. They make themselves look like sluts if they don't.
That's none of your business and it's not your responsibility. Maybe they don't care if they look like sluts, it's none of your damn business. Keep your nose out of it.
Originally posted by Makedde
Women who have abortions have them because they don't want a baby. They deliberatly have that baby killed. That's premeditation. Abortion kills, murder kills. Abortion is murder, whether you care to admit it or not.
It's not premeditated malicious killing, fact.
Abortion is not murder, it's factually not murder, by definition of murder. You continually saying it to me doesn't make it any more the true comment.
It's also not a baby at that point.
Originally posted by Makedde
Women have a choice to use contraception. They choose not too, they get pregnant, what right do they have to kill the resukt of their irresponsiblity?
What right? The fact that it's been created by them, the fact that it's in their body. What right do you have to try to stop them and get involved? None, is the top answer.
Originally posted by Makedde
It takes to make a baby, the man should be involved. It sickens me that women just abort their lovers child, and don't think he has any right to know about it. I'd sure as hell want to know if someone aborted MY child.
So? That's not what we're discussing. If you had no part in creating the baby, it's nothing to do with you.
-AC
Don't get me wrong, I am not into forcing anyone into doing something they don't want to do. But women need to take more responsiblity for themselves. The majority of abortions would occur because no contraception was used. Why won't women use it? Isn't it simple? If you don't want a baby, go on the pill, use a condom, take the morning after pill. The abortion rate rises because women are now using it as a form of contraception, and they shouldn't. They need to be educated, told to use contraception. Lack of it is irresponsible. If a woman can't be responsible for her own body, how can she be responsible for any children she has? Is she going to tell her kids that they don't have to use contraception, because they can just go and get a free taxpayer funded abortion like she may have?
Abortion is a big deal, and the high number of abortions each year says that women think nothing of undergoing an invasive procedure to rid the result of their selfishness. Not using contraception is selfish. Women can prevent pregnancy, but many don't. It seems they just don't care.
Granted, not all contraception is fool proof. But using more than one method drastically reduces the chance of falling pregnant. A condom won't work all the time, women need to realise that.
I know many pro lifers, most are against all forms of killing, many are not. I know many pro lifers who support abortion in cases such as rape, because they think of the mental anguish the woman would suffer, being forced to carry a rapists child to term. She'd never get over the rape if she had to be reminded of it everyday. Rape is different. Yes, there is a baby, but the woman didn't consent. She didn't willingly have unprotected sex knowing what the consequences should be. I still see it as murder, but what of her mental health?
Abortion in Victoria (Australia) is actually illegal. It is only legal if the woman will suffer mentally or psyically. Women have been sidestepping this law for years. You can't tell me that every woman who in Victoria who has an abortion has one because she will kill herself if she doesn't. That's bullshit. Many women have them because they refuse to face up to their responsiblities, and that's a shame.
When a woman has an abortion, what does it teach her? Does she walk out of that clinic thinking she should use contraception next time? No. Abortion, free abortion, teaches a woman that she can have as many as she likes, because that is her 'right'. What of the rights of men?
Think about it. A woman falls pregnant, she doesn't want the baby, but her partner does. She aborts the child because it is her right. The man has no say in her decision.
Lets say another woman falls pregnant. She wants the child, but her partner doesn't. He never wanted a child. The woman keeps the child, sues the man for child support, and the man now has to pay child support for a child he never wanted.
Who wins in both situations? The woman. Men have no rights over their unborn children UNTIL that child is born. The woman decides whether a mans child lives or dies, and when that child lives or dies. Surely the man should have a say in it.
Counselling should be provided to these women so they don't have abortions then whinge about it later, as some do.
I also believe that women should pay at least half the costs of their abortion. It is unfair that people on IVF must pay thousands to CREATE a child, but women have abortions and pay nothing toward the cost of the procedure, which is not right.
Eithor women pay for abortion, or IVF should be free.
All of that delusional BS aside (no offense), here's what it comes down to, because I'm repeating myself here:
Abortion is the woman's choice, whether you like that or not. Right? Got that? Good.
Second, it's not always as simple as "Use contraception". Sometimes it fails, all manner of occurances can happen and abortions may get abused, but it's necessary for them to be legal. Some women are careless enough to not use contraception, but that doesn't mean abortions should be illegal or that they're wrong. Cars are dangerous in the hands of an idiot.
Father's being involved is obviously a thorny subject, but that's not what I'm debating. Although when it boils down to it, it's the woman's body.
Does abortion tell a woman she can have as many as she want because that's her right? Yes, it does. Regardless of her reasons, it's her right. You disagree morally, but morals are subjective. You are placing YOUR moral values upon another human who doesn't share them.
Killing isn't up for debate. You cannot be pro-life if you condone killing.
-AC
Well now, I really must say that I agree with Makedde.
This is indeed a touchy subject, but,...scientifically, fetuses are alive.
They have heartbeats, fingers and thumbs by a certain number of months (3 or 4 I think), they have heartbeats, eyes, ears, .... they eat, they move, I think it is reasonable to assume that they feel pain.
After all.... they respond to music, rubbing of the stomach, soft talking at like, 6 months old.
I only support abortion in the case of the mothers life.
My sister in law was pregnant at 16 and unready for a baby.... say it with me.... ADOPTION.
She was able to help one of those couples that pays thousands for IVF, by giving them her baby.
I agree with an old Assistant manager of mine, whose opinnion surprised me (being as he was gay, and the most liberal person I had met up to that time)..... "They need to stop F*CKIN".
Its true, if you have unprotected sex, deal with the consequences, don't kill the baby, who is of no fault.
People should only kill the child if it will kill the mother to have it.
I'm tired of the rhetoric,... people need to make the right choices, and if they don't then they need to accept the consequences of those decisions.
If you wanna get laid, then deal with what might happen. (that's what they tell us-young men.)
If you dont' protect yourself, and you choose sex, you might get pregnant.
Both my mother and my wife's mother had abortions as younger women, and they both have had to deal with guilt and depression over what they chose to do. (not isolated occurences, from what I have read.)
It does more harm than good, unless it is to save a life.
And AC, stop bringing up capital punishment, its off-topic and not part of the discussion. I see no correlation between killing a rapist who tortures and murders his victims, and the killing of an innocent baby.