Abortion

That wouldn't really work.

What if the man is just deadset against it but the woman has a good reason for doing it. She would be forced to give birth where it may be dangerous.

Plus, speaking personally, it's not a responsibility I want. As I said, I personally would never be able to concede to an abortion of a child I helped create. I think it's cowardly and selfish, and I just don't want the guilt that would most likely follow in it's wake. However, I don't want to be the deciding factor in if she is allowed to get one or not. I wouldn't want to force her into having a child simply because of my personal views.

In the end, it is her body, and she should be able to do with it as she pleases, even if I don't agree.

Originally posted by BackFire
That wouldn't really work.

What if the man is just deadset against it but the woman has a good reason for doing it. She would be forced to give birth where it may be dangerous.

Plus, speaking personally, it's not a responsibility I want. As I said, I personally would never be able to concede to an abortion of a child I helped create. I think it's cowardly and selfish, and I just don't want the guilt that would most likely follow in it's wake. However, I don't want to be the deciding factor in if she is allowed to get one or not. I wouldn't want to force her into having a child simply because of my personal views.

In the end, it is her body, and she should be able to do with it as she pleases, even if I don't agree.

Just as deadset? Then the resolution is a simple matter of finding him.

Unfortunately, it isn't a matter of Backfire alone....is it?

Plus, if you look really hard, there are loop holes.

Think outside personal responsability. Not everyone in the world is as upstanding as you are backfire.

Finding him? I don't follow. What if he refuses to sign but it's dangerous for her to have a child. Would the law allow her to go through it anyways?

Originally posted by BackFire
Finding him? I don't follow. What if he refuses too sign but it's dangerous for her to have a child. Would the law allow her to go through it anyways?

sometimes, they don't know which was the father.

Finding him is a matter of subjective attitude. I'm talking about chicks who get knocked up by strangers.

If the man is just as deadset against having a child, then that should be weighed too.

When did a chick become preggers by herself? She hasn't? Then let the baby die. But, if the father wants it, then that becomes the burden of the chick who wanted to have sex, but was not prepared for teh outcome of her actions.

I'm all for aborting a baby. I would love if it happened more often. But, I don't deny a fathers rights in all of it.

Originally posted by BackFire
Out of curiosity, what sentance would they get?

They would be sentenced in terms of the damage to the woman. If the baby did survive, and then died after birth, that could be manslaughter or possibly murder.

Originally posted by Eis
That's absolutley retarded.
Glad abortion's not a problem for me and never will be...

What was I thinking,... you're right.

People absolutely have to have sex.
There is no 2 ways about it. A person will spontaneously combust if they don't. Magazines and T.V. have convinced us thoroughly,.... life is all about sex.

Folks like my wife and myself, or my wife's friend and her fiance, are outdated and archaic. We really are utter fools to have waited to have sex until marriage.

Look at all the harmfull side effects: no baby, no STD's, deeper relationships (i.e. based on more than physical attraction that will fade over time), un-polluted, pure, loving sex,etc.....

You can disagree with me if you want, that is you're right to do so.

But we both know that people who get pregnant , and are unable/unwilling to raise a child, can avoid the whole mess by not having sex.

Heaven forbid they should deny themselves that pleasure, no.... people want what they want, and they dont' care about consequences.

When abortion (except in medical cases for the life of the mother) becomes illegal,.... and it will (Go Roberts, Go Alito!) then people will understand.

Your choices are things you have to live with.

(and so is a baby that you may have from those choices)

Originally posted by sithsaber408
What was I thinking,... you're right.

People absolutely [B]have to have sex.
There is no 2 ways about it. A person will spontaneously combust if they don't. Magazines and T.V. have convinced us thoroughly,.... life is all about sex.

Folks like my wife and myself, or my wife's friend and her fiance, are outdated and archaic. We really are utter fools to have waited to have sex until marriage.

Look at all the harmfull side effects: no baby, no STD's, deeper relationships (i.e. based on more than physical attraction that will fade over time), un-polluted, pure, loving sex,etc.....

You can disagree with me if you want, that is you're right to do so.

But we both know that people who get pregnant , and are unable/unwilling to raise a child, can avoid the whole mess by not having sex.

Heaven forbid they should deny themselves that pleasure, no.... people want what they want, and they dont' care about consequences.

When abortion (except in medical cases for the life of the mother) becomes illegal,.... and it will (Go Roberts, Go Alito!) then people will understand.

Your choices are things you have to live with.

(and so is a baby that you may have from those choices) [/B]

Originally posted by Eis
Just because a couple does not wish to have children they should deny themselves the pleasure of having sex?

People have a right to their own karma rather it is good or bad. It would be nice if we could help people who are hurting themselves, but we can't. The issue of law is how the rights of one person affects the rights of another person. The question is what is a fetus? If a fetus is a human then it has rights and laws against murder apply. If a fetus is not a human then what is a human? Can we risk a society that defines humans and gets it wrong? We have been through this before; in WWII 6 million Jews were killed because a society defines humans and got it wrong.

Originally posted by Eis
Just because a couple does not wish to have children they should deny themselves the pleasure of having sex?

As I posted earlier:

Heaven forbid they should deny themselves that pleasure, no.... people want what they want, and they dont' care about consequences.

When abortion (except in medical cases for the life of the mother) becomes illegal,.... and it will (Go Roberts, Go Alito!) then people will understand.

Your choices are things you have to live with.

(and so is a baby that you may have from those choices)

So.... yeah. If they don't want to have to face a choice of aborting or not, the best way to do that is not have sex. If they have sex, they should be in the position to raise a child if they have one.

They should listen to God, and follow his word (no sex before marriage, raise the baby if you get pregnant),.... rather than Playing God and thinking that we know better.

But that's outdated and archaic too. We know better than God,... there is no God.

But when it becomes illegal to have an abortion, people will have to adjust their codes of conduct.

Then pregnancies will have to be kept/given up for adoption,.... and I suspect people will not have sex as much, until they are able to care for a baby.

Okay. First of all, illegalizing abortion will NOT stop it at all, and would in fact cause more problems. People will still do it, but since it wouldn't be done in a clinic by a trained doctor with the proper procedures, the woman's health will terribly be at risk.

Not everyone is religious. Or believes in god. So there goes that argument of yours.

And what about people who don't plan on marrying until later in life? Or not marrying at all, for that matter?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
People have a right to their own karma rather it is good or bad. It would be nice if we could help people who are hurting themselves, but we can't. The issue of law is how the rights of one person affects the rights of another person. The question is what is a fetus? If a fetus is a human then it has rights and laws against murder apply. If a fetus is not a human then what is a human? Can we risk a society that defines humans and gets it wrong? We have been through this before; in WWII 6 million Jews were killed because a society defines humans and got it wrong.

✅

We already have blood on our hands.

As I said, my generation has lost a 1/3rd of its members to abortion.

But this has been going (in "full force"😉 since the early 70's.

I agree with you Shaky, even in a more direct way. I would say the results of sin/disobeying God, you would say karma.

But I bet everybody can say: C-O-L-U-M-B-I-N-E... OR 9-11.

There is never going to be factual/scientific evidence of it, but it sounds a whole lot like the "karma" our country would deserve for legalizing the killing of children, so that people can enjoy the hedonistic pleasure of wanton, gratuitous sex whenever they please without any moral obligations or consequences.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
✅

We already have blood on our hands.

As I said, my generation has lost a 1/3rd of its members to abortion.

But this has been going (in "full force"😉 since the early 70's.

I agree with you Shaky, even in a more direct way. I would say the results of sin/disobeying God, you would say karma.

But I bet everybody can say: C-O-L-U-M-B-I-N-E... OR 9-11.

There is never going to be factual/scientific evidence of it, but it sounds a whole lot like the "karma" our country would deserve for legalizing the killing of children, so that people can enjoy the hedonistic pleasure of wanton, gratuitous sex whenever they please without any moral obligations or consequences.

You take it too far and then come across as an extremist. I am not for the illegalization of abortion, but it should not be used as a form of birth control.

To pro-choice people
Disrespect for humanity leads to disrespect for you (all of you).

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You take it too far and then come across as an extremist. I am not for the illegalization of abortion, but it should not be used as a form of birth control.

Disrespect for humanity leads to disrespect for you (all of you).

I only take it to the next logical conclusion.

But I am open to anyone's interperation, just doesn't mean I'll change mine.

I'm curious Shaky, if you dont want it illegal, but dont want it as a method of birth control,.... when do you support abortion?

(I support it as a medical decision to save the life of the mother, if having a child would kill her.)

How did I disrespect humanity? I'm for the preservation of the lives of babies.

I may disrespect the pregnant woman(not intentionally, but through my standards), but she disrespects humanity by wanting to have sex, then throw away the baby becuase she "doesn't want" a child.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
I only take it to the next logical conclusion.

But I am open to anyone's interperation, just doesn't mean I'll change mine.

I'm curious Shaky, if you dont want it illegal, but dont want it as a method of birth control,.... when do you support abortion?

(I support it as a medical decision to save the life of the mother, if having a child would kill her.)

I would close down all of these clinics. I would remove and financial gain connected to abortion and I would educate people on the alternatives. However, at that point, if a women wish to have an abortion, she would be aloud to have one.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
When abortion (except in medical cases for the life of the mother) becomes illegal,.... and it will (Go Roberts, Go Alito!) then people will understand.

Your choices are things you have to live with.

[B]Playing God and thinking that we know better.

[/B]

Okay, I've listened to what you have said in many different threads, covering many different topics. But this post, without a doubt, clearly shows what you're all about. Go Roberts! Go Alito! The christian conservative right makes me sick. They speak out of one side of their mouths to b*tch about "activist judges" and then babble out of the other side by saying stupid shit like "GO ALITO!"

Thump your bible all you want, but do it in the limited privacy of your own gaddamn home, or in the fellowship of your church. It makes me sick to think about the bullshit hypocrisy of so many christians.

PLAYING god is apparently the exclusive territory of bible thumping, in your face christians. I'm all for religious freedom, but stop legislating taste. You people think that you cast a ballot for baby Jesus, but you're being used and abused by your own candidates. This isn't about democrat v republican, or christian v non-christian...this is about minding your own goddamn buisness. What has the "christian" agenda gotten us? War in Iraq, the F*CKING PATRIOT ACT!, political polarization, intelligence oversights, orbital gas prices, a ridiculous debate over 'giving gays equal rights, flipping out over janet jacksons boob and a freaking poster sized TV rating at the beginning of every television program...and that's just the short of it!

So, you can take your bible and shove it squarely up your own ass.

stupid crap....

Well....I'm a christian...... apparently means one thing to you...and a wholly different thing to others.

Pro-choice. But don't use it as a form of birth control.

Ha, fine I could be cruel to. Who cares about the baby, if the mother wants to scrape it's brain out and put it's parts in a bag then go ahead, aslong as the mother is fine, then a week later she has sex again and do it again. Oh yeah who cares if she is 15, it's her chioce and none of your guys business so back off her!!

Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
Ha, fine I could be cruel to. Who cares about the baby, if the mother wants to scrape it's brain out and put it's parts in a back then go ahead, aslong as the mother is fine, then a week later she has sex again and do it again. Oh yeah who cares if she is 15, it's her chioce and none of your guys business so back off her!!

OK, why should I not do the same thing to you?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
OK, why should I not do the same thing to you?

Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
What do you mean ?

If you say it is OK to kill a unborn baby, how do you keep some evil dictator from saying that your race is inhuman and should be destroyed?