Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
That is not the question on this thread about murder though. read the beginning of the thread.
I've read the thread, I've contributed a lot of posts to this thread and read a huge amount of them.
The debate is abortion, so let's deal with that by not calling it murder, shall we? Since that's not what it is.
Originally posted by meep-meep
Does anyone really think a women would want to have an abortion anyway?
I'd have to agree with someone who previously noted about how some women wait till the last minute to have an abortion. That is being a little too irresponsible.
That's a people problem, not an abortion problem.
-AC
Originally posted by Makedde
No one choses to be hit by lightening. Women chose to kill their unborn children because they are too selfish to face up to their responsibilities.
That part about responsibility is your opinion. What isn't opinion is that it's not murder.
That's a fact. A cold, hard fact.
-AC
Originally posted by Makedde
No one choses to be hit by lightening. Women chose to kill their unborn children because they are too selfish to face up to their responsibilities.
Not relevant. It doesn't even make sense because the lightning is committing the act, not the person 'choosing', which would in the analogy be the foetus.
Killing clearly doesn't equal murder.
Originally posted by Makedde
It isn't defined as murder, doesn't mean it isn't. I am entitled to my opinion.
But it does. I'm not sure why you can't grasp that.
If I maintain that a chocolate bar is a packet of crisps because I like to call all snack products crisps, my opinion notwithstanding, it's not true.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Well your opinion is wrong. Many here are scared to say that, but murder is a legal term and only a legal term, therefore it's definition is all there is, aka it's not murder.-AC
Saying my opinion is wrong is like saying that being pro-life is wrong, and it isn't. Both opinions are correct, there is no right or wrong opinion.
Originally posted by Makedde
Saying my opinion is wrong is like saying that being pro-life is wrong, and it isn't. Both opinions are correct, there is no right or wrong opinion.
Why can you n ot understand it. Abortion is just not murder, it isn't....it just is NOT. By Definition, to argue that is stupid.
Now pro-life is different, you can be pro-life for multiple reasons. Some are more reasonable than others though. For example if you are pro life because you think abortion is murder that is stupid...because it isn't.
[edit]You actually call them "crisps"?...I was certain my english teacher was kidding me.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The argument IS over, the debate is over. The thread may not be, the argument and debate on whether or not abortion is murder, is.-AC
Ok, just coming back in here to deal with this boundless and crass arrogance spreading from some people here, who then think in turn they think they have the right to decide where the debate goes.
Abortion might be murder, especially after a certain amount of time. Whether it is or not is a matter of opinion, not fact.
First of all, saying that if the law says it is not murder then it is not is a non-starter. Murder is considered a moral as well as a legal term, and the law can sometimes be wrong. It never used to be illegal to kill a slave, for example, but any right thinking person would say that killing one WAS murder whether the law said so or not. Many times laws have been changed because what the legal definition of murder was was wrong.
Secondly, some countries DO consider abortions after a certain period murder, so trying to put this absolute lockdown in there is pointless. It is very much possible for abortion to be legally murder, so therefore it is very valid to hold the opinion that laws that do not think that are simply wrong.
The question of whether abortion is murder or not is actually the central point of the entire debate that much of the world is locked in- because only if it IS murder is there the moral imperative to override the woman's choice.. You cannot just stroll in here and say it is not and that you are right and that no-one can contradict you. This is not true, and as I say, is unmitigated arrogance of the highest order, and I will simply not allow debates and opinions to be stifled like that.
I am sorry, but dig deep enough... and this debate pretty much IS about murder and nothing else.
Originally posted by Makedde
Every abortion kills a child. You can't deny that. Killing=Murder.
And in counterpoint... yes, that CAN be denied, because you need to establish at what point a foetus becomes a child. Before that point it isn't murder at all, by any legal or moral standard.
And so the mess of the debate continues, because no-one knows when that point is- though for sure, it has already passed by the point the baby is ready to be born, which is why this idea that it is morally ok to terminate a baby just because it is still in the womb is so extremely immoral because that has nothing to do with whether the baby is actually a fully formed and functional being yet. That is a debate that is entirely about brain structure, and that is the only criteria science will ever use.