Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The thing you don't get is that abortion is not murder. As stated previously, murder is a legal term and abortion does not fit it.End of argument.
As for life beginning at conception, no proof for that.
-AC
is it comprehensible.....
Originally posted by powerfulone1987
still, there are people out there who would still argue it obviously. So he has no say when the argument is over.is it comprehensible.....
The argument IS over, the debate is over. The thread may not be, the argument and debate on whether or not abortion is murder, is.
-AC
Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
Well Power the legal term of murder is still debatable but I rather use the word "killing'
No it's not. Murder is a legal term and it's definition is not applicable to abortion.
That is an actual fact. Denying it is stupid and childish. Use the word killing all you want, but it's not murder.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri😕 Thats why I said I use the word killing...because in certain situations depending on the purpose of the abortion it could be. Like I think in the usa certain reasons for abortion is illegal, and depending how far along it is.
No it's not. Murder is a legal term and it's definition is not applicable to abortion.That is an actual fact. Denying it is stupid and childish. Use the word killing all you want, but it's not murder.
-AC
Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
😕 Thats why I said I use the word killing...because in certain situations depending on the purpose of the abortion it could be. Like I think in the usa certain reasons for abortion is illegal.
Well obviously it's "killing" in the sense of termination, yes.
Murder however, is a word non-applicable to abortion. Murder is a legal term and it's definition does not apply to abortion. Everyone calling abortion murder is wrong, because it's factually not murder. The worst legal charge you could bring against something like that is constructive manslaughter. Never murder.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauriyeah it is killing, I will use the term killing. You can not kill a rock because it's not alive. Also the arguments on when the baby is alive in studies show when fetal brainwaves are detected. Also I don't understand why some girls wait until 3 days before birth at times to have an abortion.
Well obviously it's "killing" in the sense of termination, yes.Murder however, is a word non-applicable to abortion. Murder is a legal term and it's definition does not apply to abortion. Everyone calling abortion murder is wrong, because it's factually not murder. The worst legal charge you could bring against something like that is constructive manslaughter. Never murder.
-AC
Besides are they better off with abortion anyway .
DEATH: The leading causes of abortion related deaths are hemorrhage, infection, embolism, anesthesia, and undiagnosed ectopic pregnancies. Legal abortion is reported as the fifth leading cause of maternal death in the United States, though in fact it is recognized that most abortion related deaths are not officially reported as such.(2)
This survey instrument was distributed to women who had contact with WEBA, Victims of Choice, or Last Harvest Ministries. The latter two organizations used it as an intake form for women inquiring about post-abortion counseling or crisis pregnancy counseling. Compared to women who received the questionnaire from these latter two sources, the 111 participants from the WEBA distribution were significantly more likely to have already participated in post-abortion healing programs, and were significantly more likely to report feeling "reconciled with" their abortion "today" (56.1% vs 13.9%).
Using chi-square tests for significance, women who had at least one abortion as a teen were significantly more likely to report: nightmares; flashbacks to the abortion; hysterical outbreaks; unforgiveness of those involved; feelings of guilt; fear of punishment from God; fear of harm coming upon their other children; a worsening of negative feelings about the abortion on the anniversary date of the abortion, during a later pregnancy, or when exposed to pro-choice propaganda; preoccupation with thoughts of the child they could have had; excessive interest in pregnant women; excessive interest in babies; experiencing false pregnancies; a dramatic personality change for the worse; a waking or sleeping "visitation" from the aborted child; having talked to the aborted child prior to the abortion.
Women who aborted as teens were significantly less likely to report: a history of professional counseling prior to their abortion; that the memory of the abortion has faded with time; having undergone surgical sterilization to avoid the risk of another abortion; feeling more in touch with their feelings after the abortion; feelings of hatred toward all men.
Women who reported having had more than one abortion were significantly more likely to report: a history of being physically abused as a child; a period of strong feelings of relief after the abortion; being pro-choice after the abortion; hatred of the man who made them pregnant; ending the relationship with their partner after the abortion; difficulty in maintaining and developing personal relationships; becoming promiscuous; being self-destructive; beginning to use or increasing the use of drugs after the abortion; feelings of anxiety; fear of God; fear of another pregnancy; fear of needing another abortion; fear for unknown reasons; frequently experiencing heavy bleeding after the abortion; emotional aftereffects of the abortion which were so severe that there was a period in which they could not function normally at home, work, or in personal relationships; having experienced a nervous breakdown at some time after the abortion.
Women with a history of multiple abortions were significantly less likely to report: that the memory of their abortion was vividly clear; a worsening of abortion related feelings on the anniversary date of the abortion or the due date of the pregnancy.
Also for the people that don't want kids at all, why don't they just have the girls tubes tied or a vasectomy for the guy ?
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
That being said, I would love to have a child. Not just any child, but my own child. A genetic extension of my existence. If my boyfriend has a sister, then that is excellent. However, I don't have a sister... At least not one I could ask such a favor of....How about it Burl, want to be resonsible for more than just us?....
Absolutely. 😉
However, we will have to wait a few years since Amber is only twelve. 😆
Originally posted by Cyber Ninja
yeah it is killing, I will use the term killing. You can not kill a rock because it's not alive. Also the arguments on when the baby is alive in studies show when fetal brainwaves are detected. Also I don't understand why some girls wait until 3 days before birth at times to have an abortion.Besides are they better off with abortion anyway .
DEATH: The leading causes of abortion related deaths are hemorrhage, infection, embolism, anesthesia, and undiagnosed ectopic pregnancies. Legal abortion is reported as the fifth leading cause of maternal death in the United States, though in fact it is recognized that most abortion related deaths are not officially reported as such.(2)
This survey instrument was distributed to women who had contact with WEBA, Victims of Choice, or Last Harvest Ministries. The latter two organizations used it as an intake form for women inquiring about post-abortion counseling or crisis pregnancy counseling. Compared to women who received the questionnaire from these latter two sources, the 111 participants from the WEBA distribution were significantly more likely to have already participated in post-abortion healing programs, and were significantly more likely to report feeling "reconciled with" their abortion "today" (56.1% vs 13.9%).
Using chi-square tests for significance, women who had at least one abortion as a teen were significantly more likely to report: nightmares; flashbacks to the abortion; hysterical outbreaks; unforgiveness of those involved; feelings of guilt; fear of punishment from God; fear of harm coming upon their other children; a worsening of negative feelings about the abortion on the anniversary date of the abortion, during a later pregnancy, or when exposed to pro-choice propaganda; preoccupation with thoughts of the child they could have had; excessive interest in pregnant women; excessive interest in babies; experiencing false pregnancies; a dramatic personality change for the worse; a waking or sleeping "visitation" from the aborted child; having talked to the aborted child prior to the abortion.
Women who aborted as teens were significantly less likely to report: a history of professional counseling prior to their abortion; that the memory of the abortion has faded with time; having undergone surgical sterilization to avoid the risk of another abortion; feeling more in touch with their feelings after the abortion; feelings of hatred toward all men.
Women who reported having had more than one abortion were significantly more likely to report: a history of being physically abused as a child; a period of strong feelings of relief after the abortion; being pro-choice after the abortion; hatred of the man who made them pregnant; ending the relationship with their partner after the abortion; difficulty in maintaining and developing personal relationships; becoming promiscuous; being self-destructive; beginning to use or increasing the use of drugs after the abortion; feelings of anxiety; fear of God; fear of another pregnancy; fear of needing another abortion; fear for unknown reasons; frequently experiencing heavy bleeding after the abortion; emotional aftereffects of the abortion which were so severe that there was a period in which they could not function normally at home, work, or in personal relationships; having experienced a nervous breakdown at some time after the abortion.
Women with a history of multiple abortions were significantly less likely to report: that the memory of their abortion was vividly clear; a worsening of abortion related feelings on the anniversary date of the abortion or the due date of the pregnancy.
Also for the people that don't want kids at all, why don't they just have the girls tubes tied or a vasectomy for the guy ?
All of that is well known, I'm sure, to everyone in this thread. I've read that before because someone else either posted it or linked me to it, I think it was Backspace, not sure.
It doesn't change the fact that it's not murder. As soon as this fact is accepted, we can move along. That said, people not accepting it are just stupid, so we can move along and leave them behind anyway.
Are they better off with abortion? Who, the mother/father? Who knows? They may be, they may not be, the point is that they have the right to choose and nobody else has the right to interject.
On your last question: It's something I've always wondered too, but I wondered it for about five minutes before realising that they might not want to do that, simply. That's completely seperate from abortion so I'm not going to get into it.
-AC
pro-choice. Disclaimer: Just because a person is pro-cuoice it doesn't mean they want all women to go out and hve an obortion. It's important that they have that choice. Abortions are horrible, horrible things to go through so you could imagine how hard that would be for a women to make that decision. Just classifying women who have abortions as insensetive, heartless bitches is feeding into the stereotype that certain groups have made. Women who do choose to have an abortion are 99.9% of the time making the decision based on their personal economic, or social situations that are already stressful as it is. That or they were raped. It's easy for anyone to just say yes onr no to a question like this and justify their answer by saying "because it's wrong", "we should be able to do what we want" or because life is too precious. I'd speculate some of those same people who claim that life is too precious might also be inclined to persecute women who have to raise 7 kids with no father and rely on foodstamps and other governmental programs to help take care of her kids. Where is the beauty and preciousness of life then? This isn'ta black and white issue, none usually are, and to put an idea like abortion up on a pedestal and only allow for two ideas on it, well, you end up limiting yourself to a very restricted mind. The only way for us to stop this ridiculous conflict is to put down our mental barriers and try to actually listen to one another.