Abortion

Originally posted by FeceMan
Or, better that the Bible doesn't say that killing babies is a good thing.

According to the Bible, God approves of killing babies, even in the womb:

Hosea 9:14

Give them, O LORD - what will You give? Give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts.

Hosea 9:16

Ephraim is stricken, their root is dried up, they will bear no fruit. Even though they bear children, I will slay the precious ones of their womb.

Hosea 13:16

Samaria will be held guilty, for she has rebelled against her God. They will fall by the sword, their little ones will be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women will be ripped open.

According to the Bible, God kills babies to punish the parents:

2 Samuel 12:14

"However, because by this deed you have given occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born to you shall surely die."

According to the Bible, God approves of abortions for unfaithful wives:

Numbers 5:27-28

When he has made her drink the water, then it shall come about, if she has defiled herself and has been unfaithful to her husband, that the water which brings a curse will go into her and cause bitterness, and her abdomen will swell and her thigh will waste away, and the woman will become a curse among her people.

But if the woman has not defiled herself and is clean, she will then be free and conceive children.

Originally posted by FeceMan
I do not know. Perhaps the infant mortality rate was very high for children under a month old. Maybe the people were to wait until the baby got on their nerves before counting.

*Shrugs.*

In other words, the only time one does not count individuals when taking a census is when they are not considered persons.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Or, better that the Bible doesn't say that killing babies is a good thing.

unless you're abraham 😛

Originally posted by PVS
unless you're abraham 😛

Well...full-grown babies.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
According to the Bible, God approves of killing babies, even in the womb:

According to the Bible, God kills babies to punish the parents:

According to the Bible, God approves of abortions for unfaithful wives:

Also, simply because the woman was unfaithful does not mean that she was pregnant. The verse says that the woman will, essentially, fall ill and become barren. It does not say she'll miscarry or that her husband is causing her child to die--the drinking of the solution is to prove the woman's fidelity to her husband.

In other words, the only time one does not count individuals when taking a census is when they are not considered persons.

The worst thing you could do is start applying the rules of a religion you CHOSE to adopt, to life situations of athiests or others.

-AC

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
According to the Bible, God approves of killing babies, even in the womb:

According to the Bible, God kills babies to punish the parents:

According to the Bible, God approves of abortions for unfaithful wives:

In other words, the only time one does not count individuals when taking a census is when they are not considered persons.

While you have seriously misinterperetd the meaning of those scriptures,

(they are meant to say that the sinners in question won't be alowed children, or that the children they have will die young/badly, if they disobey God... they are not endorsing the killing of babies and you know it.) .... You ought to be careful as the Bible is a two-edged sword.

What does Christ say about kids:

Matt.19:14 "But Jesus said, 'Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.' "

Oh, and Job (the pro-abortionist)... here's the end of that story:

Job 42:1-6 Then Job answered the Lord, and said, "I know Thou canst do all things, And that no purpose of Thine can be thwarted.
Who is this that hides counsel without knowlege?" (someone who uses the Bible to further abortion, maybe 😉 )
"Therefore I have declared that which I did not understand, Things too wonderful for me, which I did not know.
Hear now, and I will speak; I will ask Thee, and do Thou instruct me.
I have heard of Thee by the hearing of the ear; But now my eye sees Thee; Therefore I retract, And I repent in dust and ashes."

And what did God do for him?

Job 42: 10, 12-17 And the Lord restored the fortunes of Job when he prayed for his friends, and the Lord increased all that Job had two-fold.

And the Lord blessed the latter days of Job more than his beginning, and he had 14,000 sheep, and 6,000 camels, and 1,000 yoke of oxen, and 1,000 female donkeys.

And he had seven sons and three daughters.

And in all the land no women were found so fair as Job's daughters; and their father gave them inheritence among their brothers.

And after this Job lived 140 years, and saw his sons, and his grandsons, four generations.

And Job died, an old man and full of days."

He never meant to endorse killing babies. He was in despair and wished he had never been born. (Like Geroge Bailey) He turned back to God in the midst of his ruins and was blessed beyond belief.

I don't think that you really believe in the Bible, Adam, but I do. I would kindly advise you not to read something out of context and try to post it in an attempt to further your own point of view.

I was a supervisor at a Christian bookstore for 3 years, and I will catch you every time you try to. (if you would like to talk about the Bible however, I would love to in a PM or another thread. 🙂 )

We don 't need the Bible to debate this.

Not once have I or any other Christian on these boards said:

"Abortion is wrong because the Bible said so. A fetus is a human being because the Bible said so. Anyone who commits an abortion is guilty of a sin becuase the Bible said so."

I have mentioned the Bible as part of my personal belief system, and I may or may not believe the above statements to be true, but I have never tried to use them as points in a debate.

Don't assume that you necessarily know what I am thinking, or bring your prejudices against Christianity into a debate about abortion and when the point of life begins.

Basing one's guidlines in life on christianity is cool if thats what you choose however there is more then christianity for choice in religions. Its pretty fair to say that at least in the US we shouldn't make a law regarding abortion favoring christians simply because christians believe they are correct in my opinion.

Everyone is born an athiest, christian's need to recognise that they CHOSE christianity. They often tend to forget that and end up believing they've stumbled onto the correct and default way of life and we're all in denial for not following.

Which is why it can't be involved in this debate.

-AC

I see this debate becoming a hate thread. Oh dear 🙁

Embrace the anger and become one with it Whirly then you aren't angry your just anger personified! Anyway topics like abortion are always stirring pots of emotions. Not to mention we have all different countries in here and backgrounds!

Ironic how religion is the catalyst for what it's becoming. Proves how selfish these supposedly self-LESS people are.

-AC

I'd like a definition of "life" before I can decide whether abortion is "murder" or not.

Is life the point where cells reproduce and continue to do so? If so, even "dead" people are living (fingernails and hair are known to continue growing even after "death"😉. Or is life when the heart beats and the brain thinks? That is what determines clinical death. In the case of Terry Schiavo, the argument was not solely that it was wrong to kill, but also that there was still cognitive brain activity. Why did the doctors pull the plug? They claimed that she was brain dead.

Originally posted by sithsaber408

(they are meant to say that the sinners in question won't be alowed children, or that the children they have will die young/badly, if they disobey God... they are not endorsing the killing of babies and you know it.) .

Why is cursing a child to die 'young/badly' better than killing a foetus?

Am I missing something there?

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Law is causing problems in here, so let's not start getting into textual interpretation of an ancient book. We'll be here until the Second Coming. Although I suppose that is the point- sadly, it won't be that succinct.

You probably shoud tell this to the poster I was replying.

And yes the point I was trying to make was that we shouldn't get into textual interpretation.

Originally posted by meep-meep
You probably shoud tell this to the poster I was replying.

And yes the point I was trying to make was that we shouldn't get into textual interpretation.

I wasn't addressing it to you; it was just a general observation.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Everyone is born an athiest, christian's need to recognise that they CHOSE christianity. They often tend to forget that and end up believing they've stumbled onto the correct and default way of life and we're all in denial for not following.

Which is why it can't be involved in this debate.

-AC

Great post.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
I wasn't addressing it to you; it was just a general observation.

Gotcha.

See, the thing is...

It's the divine command theory. What God says is right whether you believe in Him or not. Thus, it is perfectly acceptable for religion to be involved in the debate.

Originally posted by FeceMan
See, the thing is...

It's the divine command theory. What God says is right whether you believe in Him or not. Thus, it is perfectly acceptable for religion to be involved in the debate.

No, I disagree.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Why is cursing a child to die 'young/badly' better than killing a foetus?

Am I missing something there?

Where does that verse endorse abortion?

Am I missing something here?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Everyone is born an athiest, christian's need to recognise that they CHOSE christianity. They often tend to forget that and end up believing they've stumbled onto the correct and default way of life and we're all in denial for not following.

Which is why it can't be involved in this debate.

-AC

Exactly what I said. (lookey-lookey, Junior and I agree on something)

Adam PoE brought in scripture(using it out of context to boot), and I set the stage saying that we don't need to include it.

(again anyone who wants to talk about the Bible/get whooped in a debate... can start a new thread or PM me.)

Now back to the murder of innocent babies....

Originally posted by sithsaber408

Now back to the possibly immoral killing of innocent babies....

Fixed it for you...