Abortion

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I've already gone over why I think that latter belief is ridiculous so I won't harp on it. My concern is this:

You do not love a foetus like you love a wife or a girlfriend, to a different degree- a mother either.

There are many ways I could go into just how illogical and irrational I find that belief to be, but I have another question:

WHY would you choose the foetus over the female? Because it has the right to life? What about the woman who is already there, already living, already with people who love her? You would kill her to save a foetus whilst making yourself and many others, family included, depressed and traumatised? You're obviously not concerned with anyone but yourself. No foetus is worth that, none.

My original question too, if you don't mind:

Let's say the woman asked you; "Let me live, kill the foetus". What would you say? Would you comply, or would you not? If you had the power to choose. You previously said that a woman would be selfish for asking for this. So I'm guessing that not only would you call your loved one selfish for wanting to live, but not deserving to be a mother anyway?

I think your logic is disturbingly warped, to degrees unseen since another member I could name. Not meant as an insult.

-AC

Still, during the months of Pregnancy, the soon to be parents develop a type of bond with the unborn child and grows to love it in a way.

I wouldn't consider myself selfish. I'm only fighting for the child's right to live, even if the mother must die, b/c the child should come first.

Although I would think that my wife should sacrifice herself for our baby, I would comply with her wishes and let her live, b/c although I believe the baby should live over her, who am I to tell her no, you must die to let your baby live. I have no right. You say I have the choice though, so considering what she wants, I would choose to let her live b/c that's what she wants.

is it comprehensible.....

Why do you think the baby's life is more important than the mothers?

Originally posted by RedAlertv2
Why do you think the baby's life is more important than the mothers?

Although the baby had nothing to do with the circumstances, it should die to make things better under the circumstances?

I don't think so.

is it comprehensible.....

Originally posted by powerfulone1987
I don't think that the baby must lose a chance at life b/c of reasons out of its control.

Although the baby had nothing to do with the circumstances, it should die to make things better under the circumstances?

I don't think so.

is it comprehensible.....

Answer me honestly: would you still feel this way if you were female?

Originally posted by powerfulone1987
Still, during the months of Pregnancy, the soon to be parents develop a type of bond with the unborn child and grows to love it in a way.

Yes but to say that would would be equally sad to lose a foetus than to lose a wife/girlfriend is just...well there are no words for that.

Originally posted by powerfulone1987
I wouldn't consider myself selfish. I'm only fighting for the child's right to live, even if the mother must die, b/c the child should come first.

Why should it? Because of the right to life? We've been over this though. I asked you previously: If a girl is born at the expense of her mother's life because she has the right to life (the foetus), then would you say that SAME girl should die if she got pregnant and would die without an abortion? You said yes, despite previously giving the green light to HER mother's death because her foetus (the girl you will now let die) had the right to life.

You make no sense there. They have right to life as a foetus and you will fight for them to achieve that right, that life. Yet given the chance you would also take it away in return for a foetus. It's contradictory, hypocritical and rather illogical. Worrying would be another attachable term.

If life is so important to you that you will fight so a foetus achieves it at the EXPENSE of someone else's life (contradiction 1), then surely you would make sure that girl keeps her life at all costs, considering you fought for it? The answer is no, because you said you'd let her die. You are clearly only pro-foetus, which is dumb and pointless.

Originally posted by powerfulone1987
Although I would think that my wife should sacrifice herself for our baby, I would comply with her wishes and let her live, b/c although I believe the baby should live over her, who am I to tell her no, you must die to let your baby live. I have no right. You say I have the choice though, so considering what she wants, I would choose to let her live b/c that's what she wants.

is it comprehensible.....

How many loving relationships have you had?

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yes but to say that would would be equally sad to lose a foetus than to lose a wife/girlfriend is just...well there are no words for that.

Why should it? Because of the right to life? We've been over this though. I asked you previously: If a girl is born at the expense of her mother's life because she has the right to life (the foetus), then would you say that SAME girl should die if she got pregnant and would die without an abortion? You said yes, despite previously giving the green light to HER mother's death because her foetus (the girl you will now let die) had the right to life.

You make no sense there. They have right to life as a foetus and you will fight for them to achieve that right, that life. Yet given the chance you would also take it away in return for a foetus. It's contradictory, hypocritical and rather illogical. Worrying would be another attachable term.

If life is so important to you that you will fight so a foetus achieves it at the EXPENSE of someone else's life (contradiction 1), then surely you would make sure that girl keeps her life at all costs, considering you fought for it? The answer is no, because you said you'd let her die. You are clearly only pro-foetus, which is dumb and pointless.

How many loving relationships have you had?

-AC

Yes I believe that she should live, but if she goes and gets pregnant then immediately her baby should come first and she comes second.

And why the personal question?

is it comprehensible.....

Originally posted by powerfulone1987
Referring to the whole "believing that the girl who I said should live who has now become pregnant and should die and put her baby first."

Yes I believe that she should live, but if she goes and gets pregnant then immediately her baby should come first and she comes second.

And why the personal question?

is it comprehensible.....

Why did you dodge most of my post? Odd.

Anyway, she doesn't come second. Priorities may shift to taking care of the foetus inside her, but in life or death there should be absolutely no question. Your beliefs do not sync up with your hypothetical actions. They contradict each other as I have shown.

Personal question because I just find it hard to believe you would rather let a girlfriend/wife die in favour of a foetus. I don't believe it's logical for anyone who has truly loved a person in a romantic (as opposed to platonic) way to believe that. It wasn't a dig.

-AC

Well no. I have never "Loved" "Loved" someone else like that.

is it comprehensible.....

I can more or less guarantee that you would think differently if you had.

-AC

Interesting discussion we have here now.

If I was pregnant, and would die without having an abortion, I would have the abortion, even though I would believe I was doing wrong, and would feel guilty. I would also take into consideration how far along my pregnancy is. If the baby was viable, I would allow he or she to be born. If they were too little, I would terminate.

If I refused an abortion, would I die, and when I died, the baby dies, too. So really, abortion kills the baby, but keeping the baby kills you and the baby. So eithor way the child loses.

I could have the abortion, and survive, meaning I could go on to have more children. I couldn't do that if I died, and if I had someone who loved me, like a girlfriend, what right do I have to leave her behind? What right would I have to leave behind my parents and sister and all the people who care about me?

If my life were in danger, I would put myself first, because no matter what decision I were to make, the baby would die anyway.

Now thats a dilemma. I'm sure that there are some strong-willed women who would selflessly sacrifice themsleves so their baby could live. Which I think is very admirable.

I personally, would rather have my wife live.

The priorities of some of the posters in this thread are completely ass-backwards. If one is truly Pro-Life, he should value an existing life over a potential one. These people are not Pro-Life, they are Pro-Fetus. They fight for the right to life of an individual before she is born, but do not fight for her right to life when it is threatened by child birth. They care so much about the "culture of life" that they would sentence an existing person to die in child birth so they can worship the potential life of an unborn fetus.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
The priorities of some of the posters in this thread are completely ass-backwards. If one is truly Pro-Life, he should value an existing life over a potential one. These people are not Pro-Life, they are Pro-Fetus. They fight for the right to life of an individual before she is born, but do not fight for her right to life when it is threatened by child birth. They care so much about the "culture of life" that they would sentence an existing person to die in child birth so they can worship the potential life of an unborn fetus.

As I said before, the fetus would likely die anyway, whether the woman has an abortion or not, so eithor way, the baby dies. It would be better to let yourself live though, rather than let yourself, and your baby die, and leave behind your loved ones. 🙁

Originally posted by Makedde
As I said before, the fetus would likely die anyway, whether the woman has an abortion or not, so eithor way, the baby dies. It would be better to let yourself live though, rather than let yourself, and your baby die, and leave behind your loved ones. 🙁

Definately. The life of the existing person outwieghs that of the unborn child. Its still sad that the baby had to go, but hey, in life you gotta make sacrifices, que no?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You can't without being a hypocrite.

It's stupid to say "Abortion is wrong..." as a concept and then say that it's ok when you agree with it.

-AC

Can I just say again that although I am pro life, I have never said I am 100% against abortion. Although I do believe that all abortion is wrong, I do support it, depending on the circumstances. Sometimes the womans life, and her health, should come first.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Definately. The life of the existing person outwieghs that of the unborn child. Its still sad that the baby had to go, but hey, in life you gotta make sacrifices, que no?

Everybody has to make some sort of sacrifice at some time in their lives.

I wonder what people would think if the woman were a single parent? If she opted not to have an abortion, and she died, and her baby was saved, that child will have no mother or father. Is that fair, to bring a child into the world knowing he or she will never know their parents? 🙁

Why are people acting like it's a dilemma? It's not. Stop trying to look so selfless.

Foetus or girlfriend? Foetus or friend? Foetus or wife? Foetus or you?

The correct and logical answers each time are the second options, simple. Let's not kid ourselves.

-AC

Some people are not logical, though. 🙂

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Why are people acting like it's a dilemma? It's not. Stop trying to look so selfless.

Foetus or girlfriend? Foetus or friend? Foetus or wife? Foetus or you?

The correct and logical answers each time are the second options, simple. Let's not kid ourselves.

-AC

I already said I'd choose my wife.

But its still not something that you'll forget about the next day.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
But its still not something that you'll forget about the next day.

It may even be something you'd regret, even though you know you made the right decision. It would be a very hard position to be in, no matter how you feel about abortion, it's not an easy decision.