Abortion

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You're either for abortion or against it.

You can't be against abortion as a concept and then say "Oh, but that's alright." Unless of course you're ok with being a hypocrite.

-AC

I'm ok with the law passing that outlaws abortion in one state, and I'm okay with the road it will take my country to, making abortion permanatley illegal.

I'll be ok with you changing your tune, to go along with the changing of the law, as you have said you would do, were abortion made illegal.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
I'm ok with the law passing that outlaws abortion in one state, and I'm okay with the road it will take my country to, making abortion permanatley illegal.

I'll be ok with you changing your tune, to go along with the changing of the law, as you have said you would do, were abortion made illegal.

My opinion of abortion and the woman's rights regarding it will NEVER change.

If you think abortion is wrong then you should be against it totally. There is no sense or credibility in saying "It's wrong...unless I agree with it, then all my beliefs go out the window because it's to my benefit or agreement." Which is exactly what you are like, as proven in this thread.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You're either for abortion or against it.

You can't be against abortion as a concept and then say "Oh, but that's alright." Unless of course you're ok with being a hypocrite.

-AC

That's not true...you can be for certain abortions.

Originally posted by Bardock42
That's not true...you can be for certain abortions.

You can't without being a hypocrite.

It's stupid to say "Abortion is wrong..." as a concept and then say that it's ok when you agree with it.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You can't without being a hypocrite.

It's stupid to say "Abortion is wrong..." as a concept and then say that it's ok when you agree with it.

-AC

Yes, that is stupid, I am not talking about people who say it is wrong or right though. You can look at it from a utilitarian standpoint for example. Judging each incident on a certain outcome. All without becoming a hypocrite.

That being said, this doesn't seem to be the case in this Thread so it won't affect your hypocrite arguement much.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yes, that is stupid, I am not talking about people who say it is wrong or right though. You can look at it from a utilitarian standpoint for example. Judging each incident on a certain outcome. All without becoming a hypocrite.

That being said, this doesn't seem to be the case in this Thread so it won't affect your hypocrite arguement much.

Nobody is talking about that, though. Saying you agree with one kind of abortion while saying you disagree with another is fine, just so long as you don't believe abortion is right or wrong as a whole. Just judging singular cases on their merit.

That's not the case here, the case here is people saying it's wrong as a concept but right when they agree.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Nobody is talking about that, though. Saying you agree with one kind of abortion while saying you disagree with another is fine, just so long as you don't believe abortion is right or wrong as a whole. Just judging singular cases on their merit.

That's not the case here, the case here is people saying it's wrong as a concept but right when they agree.

-AC

Fine, its wrong unless it will save the mother's life.

Still the death of an innocent baby, and definately a hard call...,

but why lose two lives instead of one?

This does not de-value the life of the baby as abortion does, rather they are both equal and one should be saved if 2 would have been lost anyway.

Abortion is just wrong all around. Under no circumstance should a baby be killed.

If the Woman will die, so be it. Why put her life before the baby's. The baby shouldn't come second. The baby should have a chance at life. Even if it's without it's biological mother.

If the woman chooses herself over the baby, she didn't deserve to be a mother anyway.

is it comprehensible.....

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Fine, its wrong unless it will save the mother's life.

Still the death of an innocent baby, and definately a hard call...,

but why lose two lives instead of one?

This does not de-value the life of the baby as abortion does, rather they are both equal and one should be saved if 2 would have been lost anyway.

So you don't agree with abortion unless it will save the mother's life. Now we're getting somewhere. Next question:

As clear as you possibly can, as close to the point as you can, tell me why you don't agree with abortion in ANY other case.

Originally posted by powerfulone1984
Abortion is just wrong all around. Under no circumstance should a baby be killed.

If the Woman will die, so be it. Why put her life before the baby's. The baby shouldn't come second. The baby should have a chance at life. Even if it's without it's biological mother.

If the woman chooses herself over the baby, she didn't deserve to be a mother anyway.

is it comprehensible.....

Let's blow your idiocy out of this thread for good, because that post just showed why nothing you said should be taken seriously.

Your whole anti-abortion argument is because the baby deserves a chance at life, even if it's at the expense of a woman's life who is already here, right? Let's suppose that woman gave birth to a girl, then died. That girl grew up to be in the exact same position at say....14. Young teen pregnancy and she'd die if she didn't have an abortion.

Would you let this girl die? Please bear in mind that you let this girl- as a foetus- survive at the expense of letting her mother die, because you believed she had the right to life. Your previous post suggests that you would. So I will ask you; What happened to right to life? Do you only have the right to life when you're a foetus? When you come out of the vagina and live for a decade or more, it's gone?

If rights to life are your concern, then you would save the person who has one, not the foetus that could have one.

Also, if you knew you could save your girlfriend/wife/sister/female loved one by aborting their foetus, would you? Or would you let them die in favour of the foetus? If they said to you, agony in their voice, "I want to abort the foetus", you would say "Sorry, you don't deserve to be a mother if you say that. You may die, but so be it."? I am going to make a judgement call and say no, you wouldn't.

Bye now.

-AC

Please cease with the senseless insults.

I should be able to come on a thread and post without being harassed.

Yes, the girl should die and let her baby live.

And this is just my opinion. As of now, they do have the right to live and kill their baby in some parts.

is it comprehensible.....

Originally posted by powerfulone1987
Please cease with the senseless insults.

I should be able to come on a thread and post without being harassed.

Yes, the girl should die and let her baby live.

And this is just my opinion. As of now, they do have the right to live and kill their baby in some parts.

is it comprehensible.....

Posting stupid opinions means they'll get called stupid opinions. Discussion board, deal with it.

The girl should die? What happened to her right to life? You let her mother die because she had "right to life", now you're willingly killing the same girl off just because she has a foetus inside her? How utterly stupid. Not only does that demean her mother's death, but it's demeaning every argument you have ever put forth in this thread.

What happened to the girl's right to life? She had one when she was a foetus, in your opinion. Now she's attained the life you killed her mother for her to have, you say you'd willingly take that away from her? Do they lose right to life when they grow up or something, in your eyes?

Second, I edited a question in and you may not have seen it so if you could please answer it:

"Also, if you knew you could save your girlfriend/wife/sister/female loved one by aborting their foetus, would you? Or would you let them die in favour of the foetus? If they said to you, agony in their voice, "I want to abort the foetus", you would say "Sorry, you don't deserve to be a mother if you say that. You may die, but so be it."? I am going to make a judgement call and say no, you wouldn't."

So?

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Posting stupid opinions means they'll get called stupid opinions. Discussion board, deal with it.

The girl should die? What happened to her right to life? You let her mother die because she had "right to life", now you're willingly killing the same girl off just because she has a foetus inside her? How utterly stupid. Not only does that demean her mother's death, but it's demeaning every argument you have ever put forth in this thread.

What happened to the girl's right to life? She had one when she was a foetus, in your opinion. Now she's attained the life you killed her mother for her to have, you say you'd willingly take that away from her? Do they lose right to life when they grow up or something, in your eyes?

Second, I edited a question in and you may not have seen it so if you could please answer it:

"Also, if you knew you could save your girlfriend/wife/sister/female loved one by aborting their foetus, would you? Or would you let them die in favour of the foetus? If they said to you, agony in their voice, "I want to abort the foetus", you would say "Sorry, you don't deserve to be a mother if you say that. You may die, but so be it."? I am going to make a judgement call and say no, you wouldn't."

So?

-AC

And I don't care how stupid you think a post is. This is a Discussion Board as you repeatedly say, not a Bash Board.
So learn some respect please. You are above no one.

is it comprehensible.....

Originally posted by powerfulone1987
It wouldn't be my choice. It would be her choice. Whether I would agree with her choice or not doesn't matter.

And I don't care how stupid you think a post is. This is a Discussion Board as you repeatedly say, not a Bash Board.
So learn some respect please. You are above no one.

is it comprehensible.....

You said women should die in favour of their foetuses. I'm applying that rationale to a situation involving a female loved one of yours. If your mother, sister or girlfriend was going to die unless they had an abortion and YOU HAD TO DECIDE, what would you do? If YOU had to decide. Your previous posts say that you would let them die, but I don't believe you would, would you? Yes or no please, no insults, just asking for a straight answer.

Failed to answer this:

"What happened to the girl's right to life? She had one when she was a foetus, in your opinion. Now she's attained the life you killed her mother for her to have, you say you'd willingly take that away from her? Do they lose right to life when they grow up or something, in your eyes?"

What do you have to say to that? Civil question and I would like an answer please.

-AC

When a female is having a baby, she should immediately put herself second and her baby first, at all cost.

Some women do understand this and they do die for their baby.

And I wouldn't have the right to decide b/c it's not my life. She would have the right to decide to live or to die. Her choice, not mine.

And no they don't lose the right to live, b/c they have the right to kill the baby to save their own life.

This is just my opinion afterall.

is it comprehensible.....

Originally posted by powerfulone1987
When a female is having a baby, she should immediately put herself second and her baby first, at all cost.

Some women do understand this and they do die for their baby.

You can't back that belief up, though. I've proven that.

Originally posted by powerfulone1987
And I wouldn't have the right to decide b/c it's not my life. She would have the right to decide to live or to die. Her choice, not mine.

Look, I don't want this to degenerate, so please just answer my question maturely. You're 19, not 9. Please don't dance around.

I'm saying to you; IF YOU HAD to choose, not "I don't want to, not my choice" but if you HAD to choose, would you let your loved one die? If you absolutely had to choose. I realise in the real world that it's not your choice, but I am saying hypothetically, if you HAD to choose between foetus and loved one, what would you choose?

Your previous rationale suggests that you would let your loved ones die because you have expressed the belief and priority of foetus before mother. Is this the case? Please just answer.

Originally posted by powerfulone1987
And no they don't lose the right to live, b/c they have the right to kill the baby to save their own life

How can you say the above, then say this:

Originally posted by powerfulone1987
When a female is having a baby, she should immediately put herself second and her baby first, at all cost.

Well then if you acknowledge they have the right to live, why are you insisting they should kill themselves to save a foetus? You're contradicting yourself in so many places.

-AC

I'm not contradicting myself.

I'm clearly stating that yes, I know they have the right to live and kill their baby.

I'm also clearly saying that it shouldn't be that way and that the baby should always come first.

Do you see?

I'm stating what it actually is.

And I'm stating what I think it should be.

My opinion once again.

And if I must answer your question, and I lived in a world where for some reason I had the right to make the choice. I would choose for my wife to die so that my baby could live and I'm sure I would have married a woman who would have chosen the same. Afterall, you ask would I let my loved one die. Either way, my loved one would die.
So it's a lose lose situation. I lose a loved one no matter what.

is it comprehensible.....

Originally posted by powerfulone1987
I'm not contradicting myself.

I'm clearly stating that yes, I know they have the right to live and kill their baby.

I'm also clearly saying that it shouldn't be that way and that the baby should always come first.

Do you see?

I'm stating what it actually is.

And I'm stating what I think it should be.

My opinion once again.

I've already gone over why I think that latter belief is ridiculous so I won't harp on it. My concern is this:

Originally posted by powerfulone1987
And if I must answer your question, and I lived in a world where for some reason I had the right to make the choice. I would choose for my wife to die so that my baby could live and I'm sure I would have married a woman who would have chosen the same. Afterall, you ask would I let my loved one die. Either way, my loved one would die.
So it's a lose lose situation. I lose a loved one no matter what.

is it comprehensible.....

You do not love a foetus like you love a wife or a girlfriend, to a different degree- a mother either.

There are many ways I could go into just how illogical and irrational I find that belief to be, but I have another question:

WHY would you choose the foetus over the female? Because it has the right to life? What about the woman who is already there, already living, already with people who love her? You would kill her to save a foetus whilst making yourself and many others, family included, depressed and traumatised? You're obviously not concerned with anyone but yourself. No foetus is worth that, none.

My original question too, if you don't mind:

Let's say the woman asked you; "Let me live, kill the foetus". What would you say? Would you comply, or would you not? If you had the power to choose. You previously said that a woman would be selfish for asking for this. So I'm guessing that not only would you call your loved one selfish for wanting to live, but not deserving to be a mother anyway?

I think your logic is disturbingly warped, to degrees unseen since another member I could name. Not meant as an insult.

-AC

Originally posted by powerfulone1987
Abortion is just wrong all around. Under no circumstance should a baby be killed.

If the Woman will die, so be it. Why put her life before the baby's. The baby shouldn't come second. The baby should have a chance at life. Even if it's without it's biological mother.

If the woman chooses herself over the baby, she didn't deserve to be a mother anyway.

is it comprehensible.....

Why put her life before the babies? Because, if in the scenario you described, the baby is let live, thats one person dead and another with a broken family. Why ruin two lives?

And of course she didnt deserve to be a mother. If she is having an abortion, obviously parenthood wasnt her goal in the first place

Read above, Red.

-AC

Yeah I just noticed. I thought the post I quoted was the most recent one