Originally posted by The Omega
"I didn't misquote you. what diff does it make if they say God told them too, if in fact he didn't??"
How do YOU know?"How is that Gods fault they are using him to justify murder? it's not." Now isn't that open for debate? Why doesn't God intervene?
(Oh, I forgot, he can be he won't...). Why did God (or gods) make their holy books SO vague, they can be used by ANY nut to justify any crime?
Why do YOU have monopoly on hearing the voice of God?
Doesn't your God work in mysterious ways?
How do we know these people ARE nuts? I've seen quite a few self-proclaimed Christians around here, claiming THEY know what it means to be Christian. They can't prove it, they just think so.
SO, if some wacco jacko kills someone and says God told them to, just cuz they said that you thk, God shld intervene? Just cuz the lady in Texas drowned her babies and said God told her to do it, YOU thk God shld have intervened? Just as God is GOD, Satan does have pwer also. We all have a choice here on earth.
Originally posted by PeRfEcTlY~*~NoT
no i have never been raped or became accidentally pregnant, but my mom did,and think bout it, if every one who was an accident,on here was aborted, there probably wouldn't be that many of us around.
I'm sorry to here that about your mom, and your points was excellent!!! 🙂 instead of calling them accidents I like to think of them as surprises, and a very good surprise. It may not be what someone is wanting at the time, but it could be the very best thing in that moms life, just like you PeRfEcTlY 🙂
Originally posted by PeRfEcTlY~*~NoT
no i have never been raped or became accidentally pregnant, but my mom did,and think bout it, if every one who was an accident,on here was aborted, there probably wouldn't be that many of us around.
in that case we'd never even have developed a conscience mind and thus not been able to feel bad about it. abortion is a matter for the living, not the unborn so to say. if done early we're the only ones who feel it, physically and mentally.
syren: a reduction course forum for those wanting to leave might be a good idea 😉 anyways, good to have you back.
I propose, then, that we grant that the fetus is a person from the moment of conception. How does the argument go from here? Something like this, I take it. Every person has a right to life. So the fetus has a right to life. No doubt the mother has a right to decide what shall happen in and to her body; everyone would grant that. But surely a person's right to life is stronger and more stringent than the mother's right to decide what happens in and to her body, and so outweighs it. So the fetus may not be killed; an abortion may not be performed.
It sounds plausible. But now let me ask you to imagine this. You wake up in the morning and find yourself back to back in bed with an unconscious violinist. A famous unconscious violinist. He has been found to have a fatal kidney ailment, and the Society of Music Lovers has canvassed all the available medical records and found that you alone have the right blood type to help. They have therefore kidnapped you, and last night the violinist's circulatory system was plugged into yours, so that your kidneys can be used to extract poisons from his blood as well as your own. The director of the hospital now tells you, "Look, we're sorry the Society of Music Lovers did this to you—we would never have permitted it if we had known. But still, they did it, and the violinist now is plugged into you. To unplug you would be to kill him. But never mind, it's only for nine months. By then he will have recovered from his ailment, and can safely be unplugged from you.
Is it morally incumbent on you to accede to this situation? No doubt it would be very nice of you if you did, a great kindness. But do you have to accede to it? What if it were not nine months, but nine years? Or longer still? What if the director of the hospital says, "Tough luck, I agree, but you've now got to stay in bed, with the violinist plugged into you, for the rest of your life. Because remember this. All persons have a right to life, and violinists are persons. Granted you have a right to decide what happens in and to your body, but a person's right to life outweighs your right to decide what happens in and to your body. So you cannot ever be unplugged from him." I imagine you would regard this as outrageous, which suggests that something really is wrong with that plausible-sounding argument I mentioned a moment ago.
"I didn't misquote you. what diff does it make if they say God told them too, if in fact he didn't??"
How do YOU know?
“SO, if some wacco jacko kills someone and says God told them to, just cuz they said that you thk, God shld intervene?”
How do YOU know God didn’t tell this person to kill? Gods done that before, ya know? Told people to kill other people. You’re not the ONLY one hearing the voice of God, are you?
“Just cuz the lady in Texas drowned her babies and said God told her to do it, YOU thk God shld have intervened?”
Yes. Don’t you?
“Just as God is GOD, Satan does have pwer also.”
So now what? Satan is more powerful than God?
Adam_Poe> Excellent point.
Also, to the anti-abortionists I have the following: Today I heard on the radio that 10.000 people die each month in Sudan now of starvation. World-wide the number is 16 people a minute (or more).
Lets say a family in Sudan, consisting of mother, father and three kids can barely sustain life. Now the mother is pregnant, a new mouth is on its way. There is a considerable risk the entire family will now die of starvation, if six people are to bed fed.
Anti-abortionists will insist on the fourth child being born – probably leading to the family dying of starvation.
Originally posted by The Omega
Also, to the anti-abortionists I have the following: Today I heard on the radio that 10.000 people die each month in Sudan now of starvation. World-wide the number is 16 people a minute (or more).
Lets say a family in Sudan, consisting of mother, father and three kids can barely sustain life. Now the mother is pregnant, a new mouth is on its way. There is a considerable risk the entire family will now die of starvation, if six people are to bed fed.
Anti-abortionists will insist on the fourth child being born – probably leading to the family dying of starvation.
Without being an anti-abortionist I think I can answer that. In most of those 3rd world nations (like Sudan) there isn't ANY Government programs on Sexual Orientation. Most of the Orientation comes from other countries that want to help them. There is a large increase of population due to the fact that their government isn't supplying or even educating ppl on sex. To worsen the problem there are NO contraceptives available or they are just TOO expensive for them to buy. Once again Sexual Orientation is much more important and a better solution to Abortion in those 3rd world countries.
BF> Oh, the old "SAVE LIFE KILL AN ABORTION-DOCTOR"???
That somehow makes my brain hurt. I think it's the paradox...
I do think that the anti-abortionist idea about the “sanctity of life” is a good one – IN THEORY.
However, the way life is today, with over-population, the need for an education, poor sex-ed in some areas, religious banning on contraception and so on and so FORTH goes over their head.
How many anti-abortionists donate money to charity-organisations that feed starving kids in underdeveloped countries? And support sex-ed? And go against the death-penalty?
Perhaps it all comes back to sex. I hold the view that you CAN’T prevent people from having sex – easy as that. The drive, hormones and chemistry is too powerful – and NOT the work of Satan. In American States where they advocate abstinence teenagers STILL get pregnant en masse.
THAT should teach religious leaders a lesson they refuse to see: Namely that sex is neither evil, bad or should be saved for marriage. So – people have sex. Sometimes accidents happens.
Today it’s simply not THAT easy to just have a child. Saying adoption is blatantly ignoring the hormone-changes and bonding that takes place in a woman. – not to mention the fact that a pregnancy is a 9 month ordeal.
Were there no free abortion in DK I’d have a 10 year old child now – which would seriously have inhibited my chances for an education (as the boyfriend at the time was just a passing one, and i’d have been a single mum) and the career I have today. The work I do today contribute much more to society than another person would have.
A child is a costly affair, too. And a time-consuming one. I know single-mothers and fathers. People who had children too early and now, year later, are caught in poverty.
Yes, I’d like to have kids.. SOME DAY. But I view putting a new human being on the planet as a great responsibility, and not a trifle matter.
So to me abortion is not only a mean of ensuring the equality of the genders – its also to ensure that the children we have are wanted, loved and born to parents who’re ready and willing to take on this responsibility.
WD> As I’ve said before: I don’t think abortion should be used as contraception. But in the case I state, it may be the ONLY option for this family.
Of course EDUCATION and easily-available contraception is the better solution… But as that can’t be done overnight… what then?
How will good intentions and long-term planning help a family in Sudan tonight?
Originally posted by The Omega
WD> As I’ve said before: I don’t think abortion should be used as contraception. But in the case I state, it may be the ONLY option for this family.
Of course EDUCATION and easily-available contraception is the better solution… But as that can’t be done overnight… what then?
How will good intentions and long-term planning help a family in Sudan tonight?
There is NOTHING that can be fix for that particular family. The damage has already been done. Think in a long term. If that family would have received earlier Orientation on Sexual protection there might a good chance of them not having the baby. That unfortunally wasn't the case. The reality is as I stated above is that their OWN Governments aren't doing ANYTHING to help reduce the levels of population. So why are the kids starving? Because their governments didn't supply the parents with condoms and Sexual Orientation Education.
It was hypothetical WD. Obviously in reality there is no hope for an abortion for those people.
But what Omega is saying is that if hypothetically it was possible for that family to get an abortion for free somehow, the anti abortion people would condemn it. Despite the fact that it may save the life of the people in the family who are already alive.
Originally posted by PeRfEcTlY~*~NoT
no i have never been raped or became accidentally pregnant, but my mom did,and think bout it, if every one who was an accident,on here was aborted, there probably wouldn't be that many of us around.
I've been there, and I wish I hadn't. I lost both through no choice of my own (through my own actions I suppose), but had I been forced to choose I'm almost certain I would have opted for abortions. And anyone who says that's the easy way out has obviously never experienced it.