Abortion

I don't even know where I stand on this issue yet. I guess I lean a little more towards pro-choice, but I don't know how abortions work. Does the fetus feel anything? Is it even alive when it happens? I really have no clue. But I do know that for now at least I think women should have the right to have an abortion. One of my good friends just got pregnant and she's only 15, a sophomore in high school. And I know about 3 other pregnant girls at my school. None of them are getting abortions from what I know, but I have to feel bad for anyone who is in that situation even if they put themselves there, thats one mistake that will affect the rest of their life and I think that all the medical options we have should be accessible to them. But, I'm still sway-able, because like I said before i have pretty limited knowledge of how abortions are performed.

FIRST MONTH:
Fertilization occurs
Zygote implants itself in the lining of the uterus
Rapid cell division occurs
Embryonic stage lasts from 2 weeks to 8 weeks
Cells differentiate into three distinct layers:
the ectoderm, the mesoderm, and the endoderm
Nervous system begins to develop
Embryo is 1/2 inch long

SECOND MONTH:
Heart and blood vessels form
Head area develops rapidly
Eyes begin to form detail
Internal organs grow, especially the digestive system
Sex organs develop rapidly and sex is distinguished
Arms and legs form and grow
Heart begins to beat faintly
Embryo is 1 inch long and weighs 1/10 ounce

THIRD MONTH:
Head growth occurs rapidly
Bone formation begins to form rapidly
The digestive organs begin to function
Arms, legs, and fingers make spontaneous movements
Fetus is 3 inches long and weighs 1 ounce

... at what point does life begin? Doesn't growth imply life? So wouldn't conception determine the beginning of a life?

What's really sickening here is that women can get an abortion up to her I believe 7th or 8th month of pregnancy, which is horrid, if you carry the child for that long and then make a desicion to rid of it, you should suffer consequences.

I'm against abortion only because the child has no choice in the matter. If you were so willing to fool around with protection, you should have to face some consequences, and just be able to walk into a free clinic and end a life.

Plus I think that life begins at conception, when the cell begins to divide, so therefore I don't believe in this whole morning after pill etc.

Of course there are some exceptions, in cases of rape and such in my opinion. Specially when the woman had no intention of having sex or etc. and it was no fault of her own.

women can only have abortions that late into pregnancy under exceptional circumsances e.g. the mothers life is threatened or the baby is severely disabled. Most countries permit abortions of any foetus up to around 20/24 wks (5/6 months) and no further.

I am definitely AGAINST abortion. I understand that people want to make choices in their lives, but I feel that they are being ignorant to the idea of a fetus being human life. People will admit that a fetus is living, but they don't believe it is human. If it is living, and as it ages becomes an adult human, then it is human itself. Abortion is murdering babies. People use abortion for their own selfish reasons. If you are not willing to accept responsibility, don't have sex.

And what about women who are raped? Or who's lives are in danger if they have the baby? Or who were a victim of incest? Should they not have the option for abortion?

I believe in abortion only when medical proof insists that it may be harmful to the woman. It sucks that women are raped and incest happens, and I can understand that somebody may have a hard time raising a baby that they feel have been brought into the world unfairly. But there are tons of families looking to adopt. These kids should not be murdered without getting a chance to try to live.

Originally posted by Myth
I am definitely AGAINST abortion. I understand that people want to make choices in their lives, but I feel that they are being ignorant to the idea of a fetus being human life. People will admit that a fetus is living, but they don't believe it is human.

Actually, according to science and biology, there is NO definition of what is life, and no accurate definition of what is a living organism either. The only way to define life, is by the perception of certain functions, such as movement, breathing, etc. And one of those functions is autonomy, and a fetus has no autonomy, so, according to (some) scientists isn't living 😬

and since the question here is when does life begin, this hasn't been answered yet no2

Originally posted by Myth
I believe in abortion only when medical proof insists that it may be harmful to the woman. It sucks that women are raped and incest happens, and I can understand that somebody may have a hard time raising a baby that they feel have been brought into the world unfairly. But there are tons of families looking to adopt. These kids should not be murdered without getting a chance to try to live.

That's easy for you to say. I'm sure if you asked a woman who was raped how it felt to have a part of her rapist growing inside of her for 9 months, so everytime she looked down she is reminded of the event, she would say that abortion is a far fairer solution for this rape victim who has already been put through hell. No reason to force her to carry around a part of her rapist for 9 months.

Regarding on Evy O comment: "The only way to define life, is by the perception of certain functions, such as movement, breathing, etc. And one of those functions is autonomy, and a fetus has no autonomy, so, according to (some) scientists isn't living."

Shouldn't it also be consider that the organism (in this case the fetus) is in the "process" of developing those functions? Eventually that organism is working to become a living being. So, shouldn't the process also be taken into consideration on defining what life is?

p.s. please don't take this as an argument for pro-life. Is only a question on what is consider life.

yes, but it being in the proccess of becoming a living being doesn't make it living.
but as said, this is very much questionable here, though most scientists believe that it isn't a living organism yet (some even say it is that after it's born 😖)

Originally posted by BackFire
That's easy for you to say. I'm sure if you asked a woman who was raped how it felt to have a part of her rapist growing inside of her for 9 months, so everytime she looked down she is reminded of the event, she would say that abortion is a far fairer solution for this rape victim who has already been put through hell. No reason to force her to carry around a part of her rapist for 9 months.

So what you are saying is that we should be able to kill if it helps our own selfish mindset.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying, considering I said nothing of the sort. Hurray for putting words in peoples mouth!

And you're saying that a person who is raped should be FORCED to keep a reminder about a horrible action that happened to her that she had NO CHOICE in taking part of. Hurray for facsism!

Why should she be forced to suffer more?

And there is no proof to back up that a fetus is actually alive untill it is born and can live independently without relying on nurishment from the mothers body.

WD> So because the Sudanese government is inept at giving sex-ed to the population the family in question should do WHAT?

BF> Thanks for explaining my post. I though my point was obvious.

Silver Tears> An abortion should be carried out in the first 8 weeks of pregnancy. Any woman who misses her period should take a test, to see if she is indeed pregnant, and if she doesn’t want the child she can get the procedure done quickly.
But what if something unplanned happens during the pregnancy? The guy walks out on the girl? She looses her job? Or get a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity?
“I'm against abortion only because the child has no choice in the matter.” So you wan t instead to take the choice away from the woman? How is that better?

Myth> An unborn is not a baby nor a kid. Check a dictionary. Read my previous posts as I want repeat myself.
Are you male? Why do you want to force your views on unfortunate women?

” So what you are saying is that we should be able to kill if it helps our own selfish mindset.”

So what you are saying is that we should force a rape-victim to be reminded of the crime every day in 9 month if it helps our own self-proclaimed crusade?

Are you be any chance religious?

Evy_O> I doubt you can find a scientist who claims a foetus is not living. However it is indeed not autonomous, it can’t survive without the womans’ body.

All> Are there any NON-religious anti-abortionists here?

Originally posted by BackFire

And there is no proof to back up that a fetus is actually alive untill it is born and can live independently without relying on nurishment from the mothers body.

Do you realize that this contradicts itself? Human babies would die if they live independently.

"And you're saying that a person who is raped should be FORCED to keep a reminder about a horrible action that happened to her that she had NO CHOICE in taking part of."
I'm saying that nobody should have the choice to kill another human being (even if it is unborn). Hell, to me it sounds like you would allow partial birth abortion. I hope this is not true, because that is just sick. Like I said, just because a child is brought into the world unfairly (also unfair to the mother), it does not mean we should be able to kill it for our own personal benefits. And that is what you are saying. Putting words in your mouth? No, just rephrasing the same thing. "Why should she be forced to suffer more?" See, you are saying that it would benefit her to kill the baby, and I was just pointing out that it is unethical to kill for our own personal benefits (or "our own selfish mindset"😉.

Originally posted by The Omega

Myth>
[1] An unborn is not a baby nor a kid. Check a dictionary. Read my previous posts as I want repeat myself.
[2]Are you male? Why do you want to force your views on unfortunate women?

” So what you are saying is that we should be able to kill if it helps our own selfish mindset.”

[3]So what you are saying is that we should force a rape-victim to be reminded of the crime every day in 9 month if it helps our own self-proclaimed crusade?

[4]Are you be any chance religious?

1. Its just the words I used. Either way, I see it as human life.
2. Male. 2 things here. First, they say its "women's choice" when it should be both partners if anything. Why does the man have no choice in this. I understand the concept of "women's choice" only if the man has abandoned her. If anything, it should be the choice of both. They both were involved in the creation of another life. Second, I don't think it should be a choice at all. Yes it is unfortunate, but it does not mean we should get to kill because it is "unfortunate."
3. Read my last post.
4. No, not really.

Originally posted by The Omega
WD> So because the Sudanese government is inept at giving sex-ed to the population the family in question should do WHAT?

There are two choices. One, have the abortion. Or Two, keep the child.

Now if they go with the first one HOW MUCH is it going to cost them? I seriously doubt that abortions are FREE in Sudan. That family barely can afford money to buy food, HOW are they going to pay for the abortion?If you go with the second one they can either tighten their belts more or will have to resort to some form of making more money. So now YOU tell me which is the best choice? Or is there even a best choice in the first place?

But to be fair in your little example about pregancies in Sudan. I've never been in that position and I don't know exactly what will be the decision of the family. Since I can't criticize the family for making the choice that most benefit them. I WILL criticize their government for being CRUEL to their own people! They don't provide them with food and even Sex educations for families! Now that is a truly Sickening Government! Don't you agree?

Myth> “Hell, to me it sounds like you would allow partial birth abortion.”

You just LOVE to put words into peoples mouths, don’t you? Can’t you debate without thnking you KNOW what your opponents think?

BF asks: "Why should she be forced to suffer more?"
You reply: ”See, you are saying that it would benefit her to kill the baby”

No. BF don’t want a rape-victim to suffer more than she already has. You make it sound as if the woman is just killing a live born baby cause she has a bad hair-day.
Man, you’re a HORRIBLE debater.

1) YOU see. Well, who gave you a monopoly on definitions?
2) Ah, a male. HOW convenient to force your views on women, views that will NEVER ever influence your life. It’s the woman’s body, deal with it. There is nothing equivalent to pregnancy for males…
“They both were involved in the creation of another life.”
Ehrm, they had sex! I don’t know about YOU, but when I have (safe) sex I don’t think “oh, I’m now pretending to be involved in the creation of another life.” 😆

So what you are saying is that we should force a rape-victim to be reminded of the crime every day in 9 month if it helps our own self-proclaimed crusade?

WD> “Now that is a truly Sickening Government?” So a government that doesn’t give proper sex-ed is truly sickening?

"Do you realize that this contradicts itself? Human babies would die if they live independently."

Do you realize you completely misunderstood what I said? I said that once a baby can life without nurishment directly from the mothers body. Not that a baby has to live without HELP and nourishment that the mother gives after birth.

And who are YOU to decide for her? You have absolutely no right to decide what she does with HER body. That's all it is at the beginning of pregnancy, a group of cells in HER BODY that would eventually become a child.

A woman should not be forced to keep a reminder and have a part of the rapist growing inside of her. That's likely to cause suicide, seeing that everytime she looks down she will automatically think about her ordeal, eventually it will probably become to much to bare as you see and feel something that is a direct result of her being raped GROWING inside of her. Forcing this upon a women would be unethical and borderline fascism.

I'm saying that it would be CRUCIAL for her to be allowed to TERMINATE a PREGNANCY for her own sanity and well being. Despite some poorly constructed arguements from hippy turds who base their arguements on morals and ethics that are not factual and wish to impose said opinionated morals and ethics on other people EVEN IF THEY DON'T agree with them.

Like I've said, I don't agree with abortion being used for birth control, but it's downright stupid to say that a woman should be forced to keep something growing inside of her when it is very likely that it will cause permanent mental harm and possibly drive her to kill herself. Just because you think it's "unethical".

Well said.