Abortion

As much as I hate doing this, I guess I'll have to summarize some of the pro-choice points mentioned earlier in the thread. (Really though, what's wrong with reading?)

-Just because a person believes that it is okay to legalize abortions does not mean that they want people to have them. Some may even believe in limitations to abortions i.e. certain cut-off times, assessment of situation, etc.

-Abortion is not murder, period. Murder is a legal term, and as long as abortion is legal, it is not murder. Pay attention to this or AC will rip you to shreds

-Pro-choicers generally do not believe that foetuses are people. The definition of a human being is highly disputed, and of of yet cannot be proved conclusively either way, although there is some evidence supporting both sides (I believe more so for the pro-choice side) so this is merely a matter of opinion.

-If it is admitted that foetuses are not people, the potential for life is not a solid enough argument to outlaw abortions. If everyone dealt in potentialities, so many things would logically then become illegal that merely living would present serious difficulties. For example, car accidents would mean you killed possibly thousands of people, or those who 'don't get any' would be killing their possible future offspring by not reproducing. Thus, potentiality cannot be a logical argument.

-To add to this, what is more important: a possible life, or a person's right to choose? Hypothetical situation to think on: if you were to choose between living the life you live now, with preventable deaths occuring all the time or living in a totalitarian regime where you had no rights, no freedoms, but everyone was kept alive, what would you choose. A certain phrase springs to mind: "Give me liberty or give me death"

-Finally, life after birth has to be considered. Without abortions, some lives are ruined. Some women (and men) can overcome the obstacles presented, not all can. Many abortions are done by women already living in poverty, and adding a child may in fact result in two deaths. While you could say that not all cases are like this, some are. Period. And yes, I am aware that I used the potentiality argument, but in this case, it is a little different. With people so obsessed with having as many people alive at one time as possible, they must also consider the possibility of causing death through their actions.

Originally posted by LORD JLRTENJAC
"100% foolproof"

Now you display your ignorance. That "Protection", which by the is is just a thin strip of plastic, can fail. NOTHING is 100% foolproof.

And I quote myself:

Hi, thanks for not reading my post.

I SAID it's not 100% foolproof.

Originally posted by .😖pace Opera:.
read the 'in my opinion' part at the beginning of the post.

"People like you, that's what makes me sick."

what is this? third grade?

im not telling anyone how to live their lives. this isnt the Catholic Church, and im not the Pope. im just a man with morals, and you are to, but different ones. for me i dont like to subject woman to the risk they might be numb to from all of the sex around them, im not calling them stupid or dumb, but it does happen despite all of the education that schools throw at them. and with abortion it just gives tham all the more reason not to care. i dont want to be held accountable for her pain unless i can be there to pay the price with her and i can take RESPONSIBILITY for the choice i made, and not just throw all the burdon on the woman. THATS why its smart to wait until marriage.

It's smart, but women dont HAVE 2 do that. Women have the right to have sex whenever they want. Yes, I am against Abortion, but that doesn't mean I am going to tell a woman that she can't have sex.

She can do whatever the $#@#$ she wants. But If I were a woman, I'd most likely have the child....this is not about religion for me. This is not about "morals" either ne more.

This is about Life and Death. I would not kill my future child for my own convienence. That's just me.

But if another woman does it, that's up to her, and for her to deal with entirely.

Originally posted by Lana
Hi, thanks for not reading my post.

I SAID it's not 100% foolproof.

Oh... I'm sorry, I mis-read. I withdraw my previous statement. 😮

and I never said that Only girls having unprotected sex have abortions. I am saying that wemon who don't wan't kids do.

the case stands at "where should we draw the line at?" kids having an excuse to be stupid, or rape victims having a second option. to me it IS justified for a rape victim to have one. it ISNT justified for an ignorant girl to have one because she thought she was grown up enough to risk it. it does happen to married couples all the itme. if i ever get married, and have the amount of kids i want, ill say "TIME FOR A BISECTOMY!" and that'll be the end. but for some guys they dont want to have their wings clipped so they resort to 'foolproof' condomns.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
True, morals should not be the deciding factor in this kind of case for the woman...her needs should come first.

But part of this thread's purpose is for people to explain thier stance, and WHY they think this. There should be no problem when addressing morals in this case.

I told you why I think this, so have many others.

Originally posted by .😖pace Opera:.
for me i dont like to subject woman to the risk they might be numb to from all of the sex around them, im not calling them stupid or dumb, but it does happen despite all of the education that schools throw at them. and with abortion it just gives tham all the more reason not to care. i dont want to be held accountable for her pain unless i can be there to pay the price with her and i can take RESPONSIBILITY for the choice i made, and not just throw all the burdon on the woman. THATS why its smart to wait until marriage.

No, that's why you believe it's smart to wait until marriage. Do you see how it works now? You believe abstinence until marriage is good, you believe abortion is bad. Not everyone believes in those things and that's entirely up to them.

Having pre-marital sex in any situation or having abortions (or both) are no more wrong or right than being abstinent and thinking abortion is wrong.

If doing that is right for you, then do it. Make sure you do it yourself and stop trying to make up bullshit stories like "This woman got a heroin addiction because she had an abortion." It's stupid and it's pathetic.

Many women the world over have abortions and are fine as a result, many women have abortions and get depressed. Many women don't have abortions and get wrecked lives, many women also avoid abortion and have great lives too. It works both ways, the point is, you have no business in it.

It's none of your business what a woman wants to do.

-AC

Originally posted by .😖pace Opera:.
the case stands at "where should we draw the line at?" kids having an excuse to be stupid, or rape victims having a second option. to me it IS justified for a rape victim to have one. it ISNT justified for an ignorant girl to have one because she thought she was grown up enough to risk it. it does happen to married couples all the itme. if i ever get married, and have the amount of kids i want, ill say "TIME FOR A BISECTOMY!" and that'll be the end. but for some guys they dont want to have their wings clipped so they resort to 'foolproof' condomns.

Condoms work a lot of the time, but on the offchance that they don't, what's to happen then? It's not the guy's fault, or the girl's. You think that a couple should suffer just because they wanted to have sexual intercourse? If so, you are invalid in this debate.

You're not ok with girls using it irresponsibly as an excuse to be stupid? Neither am I, but that's a problem with people, not with abortion. Abortion isn't the problem, the people are. However, that's no reason to say "Ok you CAN have one, but you can't." You're either for the existence of legal abortion for one and all, or you are against it. I am for it, because it's better than banning it and having women coathanger themselves to death.

-AC

"It's smart, but women dont HAVE 2 do that. Women have the right to have sex whenever they want. Yes, I am against Abortion, but that doesn't mean I am going to tell a woman that she can't have sex. "

yes but what i meant by that post is tha I will say "no" because if i get a girl pregnant i will feel the most responsible. again, i am not making decisions for strangers, i am making decisions for myself.

Originally posted by PVS
i guess we hit a cultural gap of sorts.
same broken grammar as:
"gods really smart...he's like....jeopardy smart!"

(100 grand to the first person who knows that quote)

:edit: i meant to say dont bring up murder as defined by personal morals, but as defined by law.

Little Nicky... Where's my 100 grand B-Ye-Itch? And, don't pull out the candy bar.

Alpha- im AM for the existance but with barriers attached to it.

Originally posted by PVS
so women should be forced to complete their pregnancy once its begun?
grow some balls and say it, because thats where all your literal roads lead. otherwise you have nothing to do with any solution. what is your solution? what do you want to happen?

in reality, not our little perfect world as described before, people are going to have sex and get unplanned and unwanted pregnacies regardless of what you feel is right and wrong.

do you think that

1-they should be forced to have babies

or

2-they should not be forced to have babies

they should be forced to have the babies depending on their circumstances. i think they should set up an appeal process through the court system.

Originally posted by .😖pace Opera:.
Alpha- im AM for the existance but with barriers attached to it.

Who are you to enforce barriers? You're no one. You have no right.

-AC

Space Opera, regardless of your views, no matter what they are; you are in fact a 'some one'.

when the hell did i EVER say that i was going to enforce anything? its what i BELIEVE has a potential for working. im not frikin hitler. yes i am no one, just like everybody else :/

"Space Opera, regardless of your views, no matter what they are; you are in fact a 'some one'."

what do you mean?

Originally posted by .😖pace Opera:.
when the hell did i EVER say that i was going to enforce anything? its what i BELIEVE has a potential for working. im not frikin hitler. yes i am no one, just like everybody else :/

"Space Opera, regardless of your views, no matter what they are; you are in fact a 'some one'."

what do you mean?

I mean you are in fact a 'somebody' and not a 'no one'.

well regardless, the fact is that there is such a high waiting list for newborn babies right now all over the entire world. Ive known couples that have waited for TWO YEARS just to get a newborn baby. Now you might ask yourself: "Well hey Space Opera, why are there so many kids in orphanages?!" the answer is that they are not newborns and the desire for them isnt as high as a newborn child is. that may sound crazy but it really is true. and alot of the poor kids have mental or physical problems, and alot of parents feel that they are alot better taken care of by people who can handle that sort of thing than by them who have NEVER raised a child before. Its sad that alot of newborns who are born with disfunctions are given up just for the mere fact that they arent normal. what im trying to say concerning the abortion/adoption argument is that honestly if it were me stuck with that choice i would rather give the child up for adoption and go through the pain of delivery and be viewed not as a single mother, rape victim, or ignorant teen... but as a hero, for giving that child a right of life, despite whether he/she was a mistake or not, but that they could have a wonderful life under the care of a couple who couldnt before have a baby and have wanted one for so long, a couple who would charish the gift of life for that baby.

"It's none of your business what a woman wants to do."

unless, like i said i am 50% of the cause of it

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You're either for the existence of legal abortion for one and all, or you are against it.

The majority of pro choicers would be against elective third trimester abortions.

Originally posted by Robtard
I mean you are in fact a 'somebody' and not a 'no one'.

He's not anybody with regards to female decisions. He has no right to try to put up barriers at all, it's none of his business unless he got the girl pregnant.

Originally posted by Robtard
The majority of pro choicers would be against elective third trimester abortions.

Read it again.

-AC