Abortion

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Lack of achievements are not the grounds for death, I'm just using it as an example to counter-act the ridiculous connection you're making between the death penalty and abortion.

Why is it so confusing? Killing an adult with probable loved ones, a life and many other things that would be lost, based on "May or may not be guilty." and killing a foetus is entirely different.

Killing a foetus and killing an innocent man for something he didn't even do are the same?

Foetus "innocent" and wrongly convicted "innocent" are two different areas, Rob. One is subjectively worthwhile prevention, one possible wrong punishment by way of eternal death.

-AC

Obviously killing an innocent man is wrong, that isn't the issue... I am asking you why you're obtuse in regards to a mother killing her baby or child after birth, when you're against killing a criminal because he has loved ones that may be affected? Did I just misundertand your "none of my business"?

[QUOTE=8988965]Originally posted by Robtard
[B]Your taking the stance that every abortion is done because the child will ruin someone's life; that is B.S.[B]

No that's not the stance I'm taking. I don't think that all abortions are done because the child will ruin someone's life. I think that some are and some aren't. If they aren't, then I think they have just as much right to do it as those who believe it would ruin their life. My stance is whatever their reasons, they should be respected, because they're their reasons.

Originally posted by Robtard
Obviously killing an innocent man is wrong, that isn't the issue... I am asking you why you're obtuse in regards to a mother killing her baby or child after birth, when you're against killing a criminal because he has loved ones that may be affected? Did I just misundertand your "none of my business"?

If you want to discuss the ins and outs of murder, we can do so in another thread, this isn't really the place, but I'd be glad to.

It's an entirely different issue.

I have copied my reply so I can paste it to you in a relevant thread.

This is for abortion.

-AC

Basic biology lesson, a zygote is genus Homo species sapien. That does not a human being make. The same applies to embryoes and early stage fetuses. They lack consciousness, sentience, sapience. They are not persons.

NT2 cells are genus Homo species sapien.

Fewer than 1% of abortions are performed beyond gestational week 11 iirc.

Edit: That was a French statistic I think. In the U.S. it's more like 10%.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
A hair from a human is a human hair.

It's not a human.

A foetus is human in that it is of the same species; it is not yet a human being.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Forced to keep her kid, is one.

Why?

-AC

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Her? who is she?

Any anonymous woman forced to keep her baby. There are many reasons kids are orphans. Not all are the fault of the mother.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
because.....I dunno. I have never been in an oppurtunity to do so. here's a question. If you are with someone, engaged, and they have a kid from a previous relationship, does this, in your mind, count as adoption?

No, it doesn't.

You say you've never had an opportunity to do so, but you would. So what's stopping you?

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Any anonymous woman forced to keep her baby. There are many reasons kids are orphans. Not all are the fault of the mother.

No, it doesn't.

You say you've never had an opportunity to do so, but you would. So what's stopping you?

-AC

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I don't think I am ready to be a father. I love kids, but at this point in my life, I don't think I could commit myself to bringing up a child.

I'll let that do the explaining.

Some women don't feel ready to be mothers, but aren't out getting pregnant for fun, nor necessarily having sex to reproduce.

Abortion is necessary for just this reason.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'll let that do the explaining.

Some women don't feel ready to be mothers, but aren't out getting pregnant for fun, nor necessarily having sex to reproduce.

Abortion is necessary for just this reason.

-AC

People still do have a right to have sex whenever they want. Pregnancy is a possible consequence, and abortion is a legitimate option.

Some will be careless, some won't.

-AC

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
OK.....Is that a bad thing? not being ready to be a father?

Unplanned pregnancy. I feel you on that one. That's one of the reasons I consider abortion to be a sensitive issue, despite deep down believing it is wrong.

Okay, just to play devil's advocate. If your girlfriend got pregnant at this point, would you consider an abortion?

I think it's great you know where you are in life and realize you're not ready to be a father. I think sometimes you do more harm to a child by being a parent too soon in life. (Not that there's really anything that can prepare you for being a parent until you've been there and done that) Would you get an abortion, knowing you're not ready to be a father?

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
People still do have a right to have sex whenever they want. Pregnancy is a possible consequence, and abortion is a legitimate option.

Some will be careless, some won't.

-AC

Originally posted by Devil King
Okay, just to play devil's advocate. If your girlfriend got pregnant at this point, would you consider an abortion?

I think it's great you know where you are in life and realize you're not ready to be a father. I think sometimes you do more harm to a child by being a parent too soon in life. (Not that there's really anything that can prepare you for being a parent until you've been there and done that) Would you get an abortion, knowing you're not ready to be a father?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
The careless ones are the ones I have no sympathy for.

Nobody is asking you to have sympathy, or say they deserve such an easy way out, I personally agree on that front.

My main point was; this is THEIR problem, and it's not right to ban a procedure that is used for some very good reason, just because idiots also use it.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
If she were pregnant? Well, I would have to say that we would consider an abortion. What would our final decision be? Hard to say. You kind of have to be in that situation to know how you would react.

So you'd consider doing something you consider to be morally wrong, to benefit yourself, and you previously said people should face the responsibilites of having sex?

This tale gets more intriguing.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Nobody is asking you to have sympathy, or say they deserve such an easy way out, I personally agree on that front.

My main point was; this is THEIR problem, and it's not right to ban a procedure that is used for some very good reason, just because idiots also use it.

-AC

And I agree on it being THEIR problem. They made their bed, now they must lie in it.

I'm pro-abortion. Doesn't mean I would do it myself.

Regards, Yvonne

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Well, deserve it or not, they don't have it.

And I agree on it being THEIR problem. They made their bed, now they must lie in it.

They do have it, they have the right to it. I swear you change stances 90 times in one minute.

Not only is that dumb and hypocritical, but so must you, then. You said people must accept the consequences of having sex, so if your girl got pregnant, by your rationale, you'd have to deal with it.

-AC

I can't believe what I'm reading from RJ. Now he's saying he'd consider abortion in circumstances, which are probably the most common cause of abortion. But, a few pages before argued to the death that if he had to, he'd vote to ban abortion. This is hypocrisy to new levels, not uncommon though unfortunately.