Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
thats quite a chart.
Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
There all also good people in this world like I said that would like to have children.You pro-abortion people seen to think no one wants children.
And are happy that the avevage family size is two!jm
Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
They deserve it.If there is no reason for them to insult me then I do that.Like everyone else I say what I mean and what I think.Not aiming at anyone at all and yet I am the one getting bashed all the time.
How does that make sence?Anyway tired night.jm
This whole place is full of a lot of angry people, that was my first insight upon discovering the KMC "debate" areas. It took me to actually get into the conversations to realize why everyone was angry. 😉 And for all the arguments, I'll bet no one has ever changed their mind on anything.
Originally posted by The Black Ghost
This whole place is full of a lot of angry people, that was my first insight upon discovering the KMC "debate" areas. It took me to actually get into the conversations to realize why everyone was angry. 😉 And for all the arguments, I'll bet no one has ever changed their mind on anything.
You do realize of course that some people just enjoy debating?
Originally posted by The Black Ghost
Insight, but no one really gets anywhere past that Im willing to bet. A lot of times it just goes back and forth and in the end it becomes an insult game. Other than that though, you can learn things, and strengthen your own argument.
I still find it hilarious that your name is Black Ghost, yet you want to fight against the injustices, of an online discussion board.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Oh look, it's you.Mr. Promise Breaker. Pop up a lot, don't you?
The idea of a debate isn't necessarily to change opinions.
-AC
So, Im going to try a new strategy. Its more meant to clear up my own position, so you can know why I stand on this issue the way I do.
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You know already I have no experience firsthand with abortion, and Im not a woman so yes I would never have to go through the trouble of the direct decision. I am still entitled, in my mind, to part of the decision though -at least between a relationship where I would have gotten into the situation.
I dont fight abortions for religious reasons, although valid as they may be for some people. I dont fight abortions because I think that a fetus/child or whatever you're going to call it is "alive and feeling"...I dont think it would even know what is happening to it when it is aborted. The reason I dont support abortion, or even the choice, is because of fundamental beleifs.
Mainly, I see a continuing trend in the decrease of ethical, moral, religious, and concientious choice and thought. The raod that leads on goes to where life is basically meaningless and superficial, where everything that is good in life is lost. Continuing 'amends' to long-held ideas basically let one more thing slide every time. Little things like cloning, excessive deforestation, the creation of nuclear weapons- technology and changes that will all possibly have repercussions down the road. In the end, its about having too much power, how it will and already is being abused, and how the definition of life is going to change for the worse for future generations. Fine, fetuses arent really humans, but babies when they are born are hardly and different fundamentally, except that they are not inside the mother anymore. For up to 8 months they forget things quickly and up to three years think with the intelligence of a monkey. Eventually, the defintion of human could change again to something later on, where pre-born babies can still be discarded legally. In my mind, stopping abortion is about drawing a line, and putting a check to changes that eventually will lead us to overtake ourselves.
I made a thread a while ago in the philosophy section called "has humanity become god?" and it was to answer this very question-is there a limit that must be put on human power ideologically and technologically? I think yes. If not, the only outcome leads to a path that could end either in disaster or a hell-on-earth.
So abortion is just another peg on the board of unchecked advancement, particularily in the scientific area. Already it is abused quite a bit, and only more so in the future unless it is stopped. It is used mainly as a "get out of jail" free card- further leading to societal detriment, because it shows people they can get away with their unthought actions.
In short, I want to do whatever I can, however small, to prevent the total barbarianism of the human race. I dont mean that as a reversion to pre-roman Europe barbarianism, but as a loss of total control of what is right and wrong, and how far we as a civilization can get out of hand with technology, advancement, and slow societal disintegration. The negative effects of progress, basically. Ive driven myself insane over these things, and the outcomes i have seen in my head are quite scary. Some would say it is a risk worth taking, but if something is not done today, if abortion slips now, what will pass tommorow?
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Feel free to comment of course. And maybe you could share your own reasoning, unless you have already stated everything.
Originally posted by chillmeistergen
I still find it hilarious that your name is Black Ghost, yet you want to fight against the injustices, of an online discussion board.
I dont really know what you're implying. Does The Black Ghost- The Dark Lord sound threatening in any way...? 😉 My alias is The Silent Specter...which is more to the truth, a silent observer of things.
And its nothign against anyone here in particular that i said that, it is just overall, it seems much more tense than other places i go to regularly to debate things.
Then don't go around saying "I'll give you a debate.".
Originally posted by The Black Ghost
You know already I have no experience firsthand with abortion, and Im not a woman so yes I would never have to go through the trouble of the direct decision. I am still entitled, in my mind, to part of the decision though -at least between a relationship where I would have gotten into the situation.
Then wait until it ever happens to you, if it ever does. You have absolutely no business in anyone else's affairs. Not much more can be said on that subject.
Originally posted by The Black Ghost
I dont fight abortions for religious reasons, although valid as they may be for some people. I dont fight abortions because I think that a fetus/child or whatever you're going to call it is "alive and feeling"...I dont think it would even know what is happening to it when it is aborted. The reason I dont support abortion, or even the choice, is because of fundamental beleifs.
This should be interesting, go on.
Originally posted by The Black Ghost
Mainly, I see a continuing trend in the decrease of ethical, moral, religious, and concientious choice and thought. The raod that leads on goes to where life is basically meaningless and superficial, where everything that is good in life is lost.
Good being subjective. To some life is as good as ever, why try to bring us down with you? Hardly fair.
Morals are subjective, so because people are increasingly acting in a way that is not in accordance with YOUR morals, do not assume that is a universal situation. All your bases are subjective, therefore it's flawed from the very start.
Originally posted by The Black Ghost
Continuing 'amends' to long-held ideas basically let one more thing slide every time. Little things like cloning, excessive deforestation, the creation of nuclear weapons- technology and changes that will all possibly have repercussions down the road. In the end, its about having too much power, how it will and already is being abused, and how the definition of life is going to change for the worse for future generations.
Do you want to get onto how this proves in any way that abortion should be illegal? Abortion does not threaten future generations. New things get accepted in this world all the time for better or worse, what do you expect our societies to do? Stop evolving? Abortion, simply, is a choice that every woman has the right to, and rightfully so.
Abortion will be abused, but that is not a problem with abortion, it's a problem with people. Would you ban cars because people drive drunk? Would you ban alcohol because people drive drunk? Or would you see that there are people who drink responsibly and drive responsibly, and therefore there is no need for a ban? Answer, please.
Originally posted by The Black Ghost
Fine, fetuses arent really humans, but babies when they are born are hardly and different fundamentally, except that they are not inside the mother anymore. For up to 8 months they forget things quickly and up to three years think with the intelligence of a monkey. Eventually, the defintion of human could change again to something later on, where pre-born babies can still be discarded legally. In my mind, stopping abortion is about drawing a line, and putting a check to changes that eventually will lead us to overtake ourselves.
So you think we should stop abortion because;
A) You simply do not like the fact that humans are allowed the choice.
and B) Because you have some wild prediction that it will lead us to "overtake ourselves"? Sorry, but I don't see anyone looking to ban abortion based on fearmongering and scare tactics that come from some idiotic prediction, especially considering the prediction makes no sense, has no basis, and is created solely for you to push your personal agenda.
Originally posted by The Black Ghost
I made a thread a while ago in the philosophy section called "has humanity become god?" and it was to answer this very question-is there a limit that must be put on human power ideologically and technologically? I think yes. If not, the only outcome leads to a path that could end either in disaster or a hell-on-earth.
What happened to leaving religion out of this? Don't bring religion into an abortion debate, that's rule number 1.
Originally posted by The Black Ghost
So abortion is just another peg on the board of unchecked advancement, particularily in the scientific area. Already it is abused quite a bit, and only more so in the future unless it is stopped. It is used mainly as a "get out of jail" free card- further leading to societal detriment, because it shows people they can get away with their unthought actions.
No, it shows that people can have abortions if they feel like it. I don't like the fact that it's abused, but sacrifices have to be made in protecting what freedom we do have left. If we start banning things on whims to cater to every Sally and Sammy Sobstory, we will end up with no freedom, and everyone will be able to plead legitimate cases to ban anything.
Originally posted by The Black Ghost
In short, I want to do whatever I can, however small, to prevent the total barbarianism of the human race.
And you feel this will come about because of abortion? You're a moron. More people are alive than have ever died. Figure that into your calculations.
Originally posted by The Black Ghost
I dont mean that as a reversion to pre-roman Europe barbarianism, but as a loss of total control of what is right and wrong, and how far we as a civilization can get out of hand with technology, advancement, and slow societal disintegration. The negative effects of progress, basically. Ive driven myself insane over these things, and the outcomes i have seen in my head are quite scary. Some would say it is a risk worth taking, but if something is not done today, if abortion slips now, what will pass tommorow?
What is "right or wrong" is subjective. To me, you are wrong, and to allow your goals to be achieved is a genuine step to a worse world, because you're an oppressive idiot who has nothing better to do than live his life and just spout rhetoric, without care of what he is possibly doing to the people he is oppressing.
I love that last part though, that's the icing.
YOU have driven YOURSELF insane with your OWN ideas that YOU made up in YOUR HEAD, and these are reasons to ban abortion?
Here; in my head I see abortion continuing, and as a result, more freedom is allowed and our race is much better off. I like those outcomes.
Stupid isn't it? Yes, so are you.
-AC
This thread is still kicking?
I'm contemplating posting in here again...hmm. I mean, I'll eventually get fed up and stop posting in this thread for several months, 'cause that's what has always happened in the past, but it's so tempting...
Ah, what the hell.
Re: The subjectivity of morality.
Morality is objective, not subjective. (What? You ask me to justify my position? Justify yours first.)