Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
eh. this is fiction.peak humans in comics are worlds beyond peak humans in real life. wasn't captain america also considered a peak human for the longest time (maybe he still is?) despite how absurd many of his feats are?
Yeah I thought he has superhuman feats (same as Bats). Which makes Natasha's feat which I posted above, insane.
Originally posted by Smurph
Anyways, is there any evidence for the above?
Fighting skill is something that can't be truly quantified. That's why it's highly unlikely to predict who would win for real life fights with substantial records.
Imo, fighting skill can be subjective to a degree and partially objective only to a trained fighter (someone with sufficient fighting knowledge and experience).
ABC logic can be faulty (if that is the only thing used). A beat B. But how good is B? Well B beat C. But how good is C? It can go on and on until we reach thugs or street fodder.
I'm not going to say that WW is more skilled than BW.
I'm going to say WW is more skilled (imo) based off the fights I've seen (which isn't every fight in existence).
Now if someone shows me a skilled fight by BW that, in my eyes, matches or exceeds WWs best from my memory then I'll side with BW for equal stats.
Originally posted by h1a8
Fighting skill is something that can't be truly quantified. That's why it's highly unlikely to predict who would win for real life fights with substantial records.Imo, fighting skill can be subjective to a degree and partially objective only to a trained fighter (someone with sufficient fighting knowledge and experience).
ABC logic can be faulty (if that is the only thing used). A beat B. But how good is B? Well B beat C. But how good is C? It can go on and on until we reach thugs or street fodder.
I'm not going to say that WW is more skilled than BW.
I'm going to say WW is more skilled (imo) based off the fights I've seen (which isn't every fight in existence).
Now if someone shows me a skilled fight by BW that, in my eyes, matches or exceeds WWs best from my memory then I'll side with BW for equal stats.
Actually, you can predict the outcome of fights.
They're called odds. There's a reason why the house rarely loses on sports gambling.
Originally posted by h1a8I take your point about arguments over skill being wrapped up in ABC logic, and therefore inherently limited.
Fighting skill is something that can't be truly quantified. That's why it's highly unlikely to predict who would win for real life fights with substantial records.Imo, fighting skill can be subjective to a degree and partially objective only to a trained fighter (someone with sufficient fighting knowledge and experience).
ABC logic can be faulty (if that is the only thing used). A beat B. But how good is B? Well B beat C. But how good is C? It can go on and on until we reach thugs or street fodder.
I'm not going to say that WW is more skilled than BW.
I'm going to say WW is more skilled (imo) based off the fights I've seen (which isn't every fight in existence).
Now if someone shows me a skilled fight by BW that, in my eyes, matches or exceeds WWs best from my memory then I'll side with BW for equal stats.
I don't think that the reader's fighting training matters in the exercise, at all. That seems... plainly stupid. Your real life fight record has no bearing on how well you interpret a superhero comic book.
But anyways, to the thread: WW usually enjoys this de facto spot among the upper tier of DC fighters and I'm just genuinely curious if there are actual, substantive showings that I'm not thinking of that anchor that spot.
Originally posted by h1a8further: I guess you're asking for BW showings (which have been posted) and judging against your memory of WW's best because... that memory is really just a vague impression based on her reputation?I'm not going to say that WW is more skilled than BW.
I'm going to say WW is more skilled (imo) based off the fights I've seen (which isn't every fight in existence).
Now if someone shows me a skilled fight by BW that, in my eyes, matches or exceeds WWs best from my memory then I'll side with BW for equal stats.
At any rate, I know better than to ask you for the cite. If the final answer is that it's all too subjective, fair enough.
Originally posted by Smurph
further: I guess you're asking for BW showings (which have been posted) and judging against your memory of WW's best because... that memory is really just a vague impression based on her reputation?At any rate, I know better than to ask you for the cite. If the final answer is that it's all too subjective, fair enough.
Originally posted by PhilosophíaWhat showing of BW against Elektra are you referring to?
I'd go with Black Widow. Reputation -- be it lip-service or history ['immortal' who trained with the God of War/Amazons/more skilled than legends etc.] is just not enough for me. If this reputation is put to practice and she starts going up against highly skilled martial artists and does great [while close to normal human and not just "holding back her strength"], I'd change my mind. I wouldn't be surprised to see her beat somebody really good, but I can't put a theoretical against somebody who actually took on really good people -- BW's showing against Elektra for one is still the one of the craziest boosts I've seen a street have.
Originally posted by Smurph
And, sparring with Bruce is fine, but this (while injured) is better.Feats are feats. /shrug
Originally posted by Smurph
No, she basically just walked out of the ICU after undergoing major abdominal surgery, right before those scans.
Originally posted by cdtm
He's known to job though. Mr. X was total jobbing, based of the rest of X's career.
If we mean losing to people you shouldn't, then Mr. X isn't truly a jobber. The Iron Fist drunken style thing was absolutely stupid, yes, but something like the Quicksilver fight is a fair outcome for any street martial artist.
And there was the Amadeus Cho loss. Not jobbing (and back when Cho was a big brain) but maybe cdtm's point is that Marvel throws Mr X in to a book just to lose and give somebody a cool moment.
And that's definitely been true for Tasky too (ie that awful Deadpool showing) but the Black Widow loss happened in his book, not hers. Not exactly the same as those other examples.
Originally posted by SmurphThat Taskmaster fight was great also and the first time I’ve seen it. And even though Taskmaster seemed waaayyyy distracted by how many thoughts are racing in his head throughout the fight. I don’t know if you can take anything away from BW for that.
And there was the Amadeus Cho loss. Not jobbing (and back when Cho was a big brain) but maybe cdtm's point is that Marvel throws Mr X in to a book just to lose and give somebody a cool moment.And that's definitely been true for Tasky too (ie that awful Deadpool showing) but the Black Widow loss happened in his book, not hers. Not exactly the same as those other examples.
Originally posted by Smurph
Yeah, that's what the second quote refers to. Natasha had basically just walked out of the hospital after major abdominal surgery.
Well, walked out is putting it mildly...iirc she fought her way out. And the surgery was quite brutal too, as in she was fully conscious throughout.