Black Widow vs Wonder Woman with a twist.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Well, no. There is something wrong with your statements -- there is no reason to believe a real life human could hypothetically do these things.

People have been desensitized to peak street feats because they are seen so often, but they are absolutely beyond what a human could hope achieve.

Even the common trope of a street hero disarming/evading/beating a room full of trained, armed gunmen is so wildly beyond human limits that you'd need to cough up some pretty extraordinary evidence to say otherwise. They'd look like blurs in real life, and a human isn't replicating that without external enhancements.

Straight up...even Stephanie Brown and Tim Drake aren't achievable goals for a real person. Not even in theory.

This is what I stated

She didn't do anything from my memory that makes me believe no human can ever do. Even if she did then it's probably a 1 off feat. Everything about her appears to be peak human.

After that 2 bullet feats were posted. I never saw those. Several members (ODG included) is disputing the first feat. So my statement is not wrong. If I never seen a feat then it wouldn't be in my memory.

Now if I posted the premise AFTER I was shown these feats then you would have a point.

Now if if you ask me can a human theoretically possibly perform such actions AFTER a bullet is fired then I would say no. If 2 comparable feats are enough to establish her level in a forum fight then I'm all for it as long as most of us agree.

Originally posted by h1a8
This is what I stated

The key is, "from my memory".

After that 2 bullet feats were posted. I never saw those. Several members (ODG included) is disputing the first feat. So my statement is not wrong. If I never seen a feat then it wouldn't be in my memory.

Now if I posted the premise AFTER I was shown these feats then you would have a point.

Now if if you ask me can a human theoretically possibly perform such actions AFTER a bullet is fired then I would say no. If 2 comparable feats are enough to establish her level in a forum fight then I'm all for it as long as most of us agree.

But you also made a general statement about peak humans. You believed it's a state a real life human could "theoretically" achieve.

Originally posted by h1a8
A peak human is the strongest a human can possibly be. It's a theoretical limit. She's definitely peak human (not superhuman by any stretch).

Originally posted by h1a8
She didn't do anything from my memory that makes me believe no human can ever do. Even if she did then it's probably a 1 off feat. Everything about her appears to be peak human.

I'm saying it doesn't matter if Black Widow is peak human or superhuman. Any comic peak human is superhuman in real world terms.

https://postimg.cc/ts8c3cSD
https://postimg.cc/V54HGvZJ

Widow performs a bog standard peak human feat here. No real human is doing that.

Originally posted by StyleTime
You asked if Black Widow is peak human or not.

But you also made a general statement about peak humans. You believed it's a state a real life human could "theoretically" achieve.

Your premise is based on the idea that "peak human" is something real life humans could even hope to become -- it's not.

I'm saying it doesn't matter if Black Widow is peak human or superhuman. Any comic peak human is superhuman in real world terms.

https://postimg.cc/ts8c3cSD
https://postimg.cc/V54HGvZJ

Widow performs a bog standard peak human feat here. No real human is doing that.

My post went over your head.
I was, implying for the feats I saw and remembered.
Posting superhuman level feats AFTER THE FACT doesn't change that.

In summary
I state that From my memory she has no superhuman feats
Superhuman Feats were posted that I never saw
I agree that they are superhuman feats

What's the problem?

Note: I was mostly thinking of strength feats when I originally posted. I didn't think of speed at all.

The problem is nobody trusts your memory.

Well my memory didn't fail this time. I just never saw the feats.

And also I don't trust my memory either lol

Originally posted by h1a8
My post went over your head.
I was, implying for the feats I saw and remembered.
Posting superhuman level feats AFTER THE FACT doesn't change that.

In summary
I state that From my memory she has no superhuman feats
Superhuman Feats were posted that I never saw
I agree that they are superhuman feats

What's the problem?

Note: I was mostly thinking of strength feats when I originally posted. I didn't think of speed at all.

You didn't just claim that Widow had no superhuman feats that you recall.

You claimed that peak human feats are hypothetically possible for real life humans.

The feat I posted for Black Widow is a peak human feat, not superhuman.

That's why your premise is flawed. Even if we only showed you peak human feats, your idea that comic peak human is a hypothetical limit for real life humans is false.

Originally posted by StyleTime
No, your own post has somehow gone over your head.

You didn't just claim that Widow had no superhuman feats that you recall.

You claimed that peak human feats are hypothetically possible for real life humans.

The feat I posted for Black Widow is a peak human feat, not superhuman.

That's why your premise is flawed. Even if we only showed you peak human feats, your idea that comic peak human is a hypothetical limit for real life humans is false.

Why isn't a peak human feat HYPOTHETICALLY possible for a real human?

Edit -- accidental post

Originally posted by StyleTime
No, your own post has somehow gone over your head.

You didn't just claim that Widow had no superhuman feats that you recall.

You claimed that peak human feats are hypothetically possible for real life humans.

The feat I posted for Black Widow is a peak human feat, not superhuman.

That's why your premise is flawed. Even if we only showed you peak human feats, your idea that comic peak human is a hypothetical limit for real life humans is false.

Speak for yourself.

Hands raised if you can deflect a bullet with a car key or do a 40 foot vertical leap *Hand* 🙂

Originally posted by h1a8
Why isn't a peak human feat HYPOTHETICALLY possible for a real human?

Because no real life human has displayed anything suggesting a human could ever do these things.

It's as I said -- you demanded feats for Natasha, but this imaginary super-man of yours only needs speculation.

Originally posted by StyleTime

https://postimg.cc/ts8c3cSD
https://postimg.cc/V54HGvZJ

What human could even hope to approach this feat? This is a run-of-the-mill peak human feat.

From a seated position, she backflips onto the wall several feet behind her, launches herself off the same wall at a group of gunmen and obliterates them in short order....all while being too fast to be shot by what looks like multiple assault rifles or carbines.

This is just a Wednesday afternoon for even mid-streets.

Originally posted by cdtm
Speak for yourself.

Hands raised if you can deflect a bullet with a car key or do a 40 foot vertical leap *Hand* 🙂

Originally posted by StyleTime
Because no real life human has displayed anything suggesting a human could ever do these things.

It's as I said -- you demanded feats for Natasha, but this imaginary super-man of yours only needs speculation.

What human could even hope to approach this feat? This is a run-of-the-mill peak human feat.

From a seated position, she backflips onto the wall several feet behind her, launches herself off the same wall at a group of gunmen and obliterates them in short order....all while being too fast to be shot by what looks like multiple assault rifles or carbines.

This is just a Wednesday afternoon for even mid-streets.

Well, you've been training with masterbruce. He gives everyone an amp.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Master Bruce is greatly inferior to JPlatinum.

I forgot about JP.

KMC has had some of the finest human specimens to ever exist. I wish I could have trained with them.

Originally posted by StyleTime

What human could even hope to approach this feat? This is a run-of-the-mill peak human feat.

Originally posted by h1a8
There are no peak humans in the real world. A peak human is the strongest a human can possibly be. It's a theoretical limit. She's definitely peak human (not superhuman by any stretch).

Phil, curious for your opinion re OP

I'm not Phil, but if interested I say weight of history "should" favor Natasha.

I mean, when you get down to it Wonder Woman is similar to Herc. Proven capable of holding their own at upper levels, but no reason to think they could win a majority of encounters.

Heck, Iron Fist has a MUCH better resume, and it's still a hard sell getting anyone to agree he'd beat Elektra a majority without relying on his IF.

Originally posted by Smurph
Phil, curious for your opinion re OP

Originally posted by Philosophía
I'd go with Black Widow. Reputation -- be it lip-service or history ['immortal' who trained with the God of War/Amazons/more skilled than legends etc.] is just not enough for me. If this reputation is put to practice and she starts going up against highly skilled martial artists and does great [while close to normal human and not just "holding back her strength"], I'd change my mind. I wouldn't be surprised to see her beat somebody really good, but I can't put a theoretical against somebody who actually took on really good people -- BW's showing against Elektra for one is still the one of the craziest boosts I've seen a street have.

Ironically ever since be blocked me our thoughts have lined up.

Perhaps it's as they say, how similar people cannot stand one another. 😂

Originally posted by Philosophía
I'd go with Black Widow. Reputation -- be it lip-service or history ['immortal' who trained with the God of War/Amazons/more skilled than legends etc.] is just not enough for me. If this reputation is put to practice and she starts going up against highly skilled martial artists and does great [while close to normal human and not just "holding back her strength"], I'd change my mind. I wouldn't be surprised to see her beat somebody really good, but I can't put a theoretical against somebody who actually took on really good people -- BW's showing against Elektra for one is still the one of the craziest boosts I've seen a street have.

And yeah, Natasha's push is remarkable. The taskmaster showing drives that home.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Because no real life human has displayed anything suggesting a human could ever do these things.

It's as I said -- you demanded feats for Natasha, but this imaginary super-man of yours only needs speculation.

What human could even hope to approach this feat? This is a run-of-the-mill peak human feat.

From a seated position, she backflips onto the wall several feet behind her, launches herself off the same wall at a group of gunmen and obliterates them in short order....all while being too fast to be shot by what looks like multiple assault rifles or carbines.

This is just a Wednesday afternoon for even mid-streets.

Well, you've been training with masterbruce. He gives everyone an amp.

Yup that's it. You do not understand the situation at all.
My idea of peak human wasn't the feats that were posted. Those are superhuman, not peak. I was talking about the actual peak human showings from her, not superhuman feats. strength feats. Not speed feats.