Superman vs. Hercules

I think the issue here is comic writers and artists rarely know how to depict fights properly. How would we showcase skill?

We would need ABC fights where these two are on an equal physical footing with their (skilled) opponents (and then, we'd need to go into those opponent's showings), or we'd need 'flashy' depictions of skill (pressure points usually being the go-to).

Herc or Superman punching someone whilst the narration states how skilled they are isn't really that impressive, I feel. Just my view.

Originally posted by Smurph
I just don't take it as a given, seeing as Superman has his own wealth of fighting experience and Herc's skill seems to be mostly talk.

That doesn't address the strength disparity, at any rate.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I think the issue here is comic writers and artists rarely know how to depict fights properly. How would we showcase skill?

We would need ABC fights where these two are on an equal physical footing with their (skilled) opponents (and then, we'd need to go into those opponent's showings), or we'd need 'flashy' depictions of skill (pressure points usually being the go-to).

Herc or Superman punching someone whilst the narration states how skilled they are isn't really that impressive, I feel. Just my view.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I think the issue here is comic writers and artists rarely know how to depict fights properly. How would we showcase skill?

We would need ABC fights where these two are on an equal physical footing with their (skilled) opponents (and then, we'd need to go into those opponent's showings), or we'd need 'flashy' depictions of skill (pressure points usually being the go-to).

Herc or Superman punching someone whilst the narration states how skilled they are isn't really that impressive, I feel. Just my view.

Like New Krypton?

If you didn't have me on block you'd have seen a scan where Superman uses pressure points from the get go. 😉

Here's a better scan:

https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-f1dc41f11f87705d2aff48ae5f9c6aa9-lq

And here's a second example of pressure point usage:

https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-6d18a2aaf3ad4b67ae7a9c204f55a856-lq

So, Superman wins I'd think.

Originally posted by ODG
[B]Superman is an amateur. Most of his skills showings involve him taking advantage of cocky, over-confident, or simply uneducated foes who aren't aware of his training. Mongul was the one schmuck who might have been aware, but if people think his arrogance didn't cloud his judgment when he engaged Superman, you've got to be kidding me. Superman's expertise in melee weapons is non-existent.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I think the issue here is comic writers and artists rarely know how to depict fights properly. How would we showcase skill?

We would need ABC fights where these two are on an equal physical footing with their (skilled) opponents (and then, we'd need to go into those opponent's showings), or we'd need 'flashy' depictions of skill (pressure points usually being the go-to).

Herc or Superman punching someone whilst the narration states how skilled they are isn't really that impressive, I feel. Just my view.

Still, seems to be a herald specific problem. Depicting skill is inevitably an ABC exercise but street level fights tend to figure it out.

Originally posted by ODG
Great. A comic character that's made over 6000 appearances actually once beat a martial arts master that utterly underestimated him. *applause*

That victory and his foray into mythology actually went into my consideration of voting for him to move up to the third tier. But you know what Superman's 1000-year foray into myth actually did? Nothing more than simply putting him on par with Any. Average. Asgardian/Olympian. Warrior. *applause*

Apparently Kobra suckerpunching Superman and losing is due to him underestimating him.

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/SupesKobra1.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/SupesKobra2.jpg

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/SupesKobra3.jpg

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/SupesKobra4.jpg

I'd laugh if it wasn't so pathetic.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Apparently Kobra suckerpunching Superman and losing is due to him underestimating him.

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/SupesKobra1.jpg
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/SupesKobra2.jpg

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/SupesKobra3.jpg

http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/SupesKobra4.jpg

I'd laugh if it wasn't so pathetic.

👆

YouTube video

Originally posted by cdtm
I'll just post this along with the second half already posted:

https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-823211d5991aecb21f75cf960fab7671-lq

https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-ab7f16dd91f69229e3df558476a56963-lq

Kobra is skilled enough to match Mr. Terrific, who mastered about 10 martial arts himself. Also saw scans of Batman and The Outsiders facing down Kobra forces, so bet they fought at least once.

Originally posted by Smurph
Yeah, I think that contributes to why we only tend to see Herc's skill when he loses or draws.

Still, seems to be a herald specific problem. Depicting skill is inevitably an ABC exercise but street level fights tend to figure it out.

Tangential, but it's why I loved that the animation team copied Undisputed 2 for their Black Adam scenes

YouTube video

Could've swore powerless Herc got a stalemate against Elektra.

Originally posted by carver9
Could've swore powerless Herc got a stalemate against Elektra.

Once she stole his toys (the helm) she thrashed him.

Not to mention she was trying to get him to leave the city iirc.

Originally posted by carver9
Could've swore powerless Herc got a stalemate against Elektra.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman beats the crap out of multiple evil Batmen while powerless and holding back.

No one would say that either side was serious. Herc was flirting with her, and pretending to be incompetent, and she was trying to get him to leave.

Not to mention he's using the unbreakable shield and unblockable sword there...

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
No one would say that either side was serious. Herc was flirting with her, and pretending to be incompetent, and she was trying to get him to leave.

Not to mention he's using the unbreakable shield and unblockable sword there...

Originally posted by Smurph
Herc and Elektra clashing was barely a skirmish, and certainly not enough to be a skill comparison. They sorta-almost-fought but, more accurately, Elektra gave some half-assed attacks while telling him that he's now powerless and he should leave Brooklyn because he won't save it. So it was truly just a shot across the bow. And of course it doesn't work; Hercules bravely defends himself and says he's still a hero even without his powers. He gets one cool moment where the Sword of Peleus cut through her sai, but that's consistent - it did the same thing to Hobgoblin's fire sword and Herc claimed it could cut molecules.

All to say, whether you think she was making a lame intimidation attempt or just assessing his abilities, you can't read that scene and tell me she was exactly pressed. I suppose someone might counter and say the same about Herc, but again, that just leaves us with zero comparison between them. She could be one tier above him in skill, or stratospherically so.

Originally posted by Smurph

So the same thing as the often touted Question "feat" against Shiva? Where she was very clearly not fighting to the death, and only seemed to be assessing his progress?

Originally posted by cdtm
So the same thing as the often touted Question "feat" against Shiva? Where she was very clearly not fighting to the death, and only seemed to be assessing his progress?

The issue literally ends with them walking side by side as friends through the streets of Brooklyn.