what happened to the comic industry?

Originally posted by Enzeru
[B]1. WOKENESS

That's what made me stop reading comics. I don't care about diversity. I care as much about black people as I care about white people (which I am). Which I don't. I care as much about gay people as I care about heterosexual people (which I am). Which I don't. And I care more about women than I care about men, since I am a man after all and I love women, but that's another story.

But I do care about superheroes, action, adventures, sci-fi and all that other stuff. That's what interest me and that's what I want to read about. So when I pick up a superhero comic, I just want to see Spider-Man save the day by punching bad guys in the face. I don't want to read an Iceman comic, where half of the comic is about him dating men. I don't hate that theme, but I don't care about it. I think as little about homosexuality as I care about basketball - which is essentially 0 seconds per day.

The same goes for a show like She-Hulk with clear agenda-driven writing, where She-Hulk tells someone like Bruce Banner that she can control her anger, because she experiences more bad stuff than Bruce Banner. Bruce Banner, one of the most broken people in comics. Who had to see his dad beat his mom and him. Who was hunted for the better part of his life by the dad of the love of his life. Who had developed a child-like, temper tantrum-throwing personality to protect himself. And you're honestly writing a scene, where being catcalled by a bunch of a-holes is worse than that? Come on.

2. MANGA

Why read western superhero comics (as a young person), where you can watch anime and read manga, which treats you with respect and as an adult? The writing is so much smarter, even in mainstream anime like Naruto or One Piece compared to trash characters like Riri Williams (who became Iron Mangirl, because her teacher told her she couldn't) or Kate Bishop, who happens to be better at archery than Clint Barton for reasons?

3. PIRACY

It takes me 10 seconds to find everything I want to read for free. Why would I pay 5-7 Euros for overpriced comic books which are printed on such cheap paper that I wouldn't even use it as toilet paper.
I remember buying comics almost 2 decades ago, which had such nice, sturdy pages and the covers were glossy and heavy and sometimes even textured. And they cost half of the money they cost nowadays. And offered double the quality in story telling, writing and art.

If I had anything to say in Marvel I would fire every single expendable writer and editor who works there. So basically people, who ever made a single "Orange Man bad" tweet. And then hire new, actually good creatives. And threaten the people, who I would keep around. Because I do think that there are still normal people, who only behave like wokeback monkeys in order to stay under the radar and not get fired.

**** mainstream comics. [/B]

Funny you mention this, I've started re-reading Groo from the very beginning. From Destroyer Duck in Pacific Comics to the solo series there, to Marvel comics. Once it got to Marvel, I notice a pretty drastic change.

Essentially, women stopped being written like a Conan the barbarian wet dream, and suddenly started being drawn as fugly housewife analogues. And the stories changed from rescuing these luscious vixens, to the house wives being kidnapped into a utopia where they get pampered as their idiot lazy husbands whine that the women aren't around to do all the work.

Jim Shooter, Joe Duffy, and Archie Goodwin are cited as editorial advisors at Marvel, so it's clear even in the 1980's one of them was pushing a pro woman feminist agenda, probably to attract a broader audience.

Originally posted by cdtm

Essentially, women stopped being written like a Conan the barbarian wet dream, and suddenly started being drawn as fugly housewife analogues.

Who are some of the most well-known female characters in fiction? Let me name few and then decide for yourself if I'm right:

- Sarah Connor from Terminator.
- Ellen Ripley from Alien.
- Laurie Strode from Halloween.
- Katniss Everdeen from the Hunger Games.
- Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
- Lara Croft from Tomb Raider.
- Wonder Woman from DC comics.

What do all of these characters have in common? Again, I'll suggest something and you tell me if I'm onto something: I would say that all of them could have been originally male characters and it wouldn't have made a difference.

Sarah Connor. Why not Sam Connor, who learns that his daughter will one day save the world by teaching people how to fight back against the machines? And that's all because of him and how he taught her to fight back.

Ellen Rippey. Why not Alan Ripley, who is a scientist, who tries to survive an unstoppable alien creature and ends up finding and protecting a young boy, who lost his parents?

Lara Croft. That's basically Nathan Drake from the Uncharted franchise.

If you want to write a good female character, you write them like a guy. Because that way everyone can relate to them. I ****ing couldn't relate to Ray from Star Wars if my life depended on it. She is a Mary Sue self-insert for every woke writer with the side of their head shaved. I can't relate to Captain Marvel, whose main purpose seems to be to smash the patriarchy and who is the most powerful ever for reasons. But I can relate to characters like Scarlet Witch and Nebula, who had to deal with loss and went through sad and intense character arcs.

With female characters you have the benefit of using their vulnerability to make the viewers care even more and be concerned for them. It's scary when a terminator hunts Sarah Connor or an alien hunts Ripley. But with many modern female characters, they face no danger whatsoever. There is never any heroes journey, where you actually end up losing in the middle. In the middle of modern stories with feminist characters like Rey they discover that they are better at Forcing the Force than trained Jedi / Sith like Kylo Ren and that without any prior training. It's actually ridiculous.

/rant over

PS: I love well written female characters. Give me more characters like Nebula in my superhero movies and less characters like Captain Marvel.

Originally posted by Enzeru
Who are some of the most well-known female characters in fiction? Let me name few and then decide for yourself if I'm right:

- Sarah Connor from Terminator.
- Ellen Ripley from Alien.
- Laurie Strode from Halloween.
- Katniss Everdeen from the Hunger Games.
- Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
- Lara Croft from Tomb Raider.
- Wonder Woman from DC comics.

What do all of these characters have in common? Again, I'll suggest something and you tell me if I'm onto something: I would say that all of them could have been originally male characters and it wouldn't have made a difference.

Sarah Connor. Why not Sam Connor, who learns that his daughter will one day save the world by teaching people how to fight back against the machines? And that's all because of him and how he taught her to fight back.

Ellen Rippey. Why not Alan Ripley, who is a scientist, who tries to survive an unstoppable alien creature and ends up finding and protecting a young boy, who lost his parents?

Lara Croft. That's basically Nathan Drake from the Uncharted franchise.

If you want to write a good female character, you write them like a guy. Because that way everyone can relate to them. I ****ing couldn't relate to Ray from Star Wars if my life depended on it. She is a Mary Sue self-insert for every woke writer with the side of their head shaved. I can't relate to Captain Marvel, whose main purpose seems to be to smash the patriarchy and who is the most powerful ever for reasons. But I can relate to characters like Scarlet Witch and Nebula, who had to deal with loss and went through sad and intense character arcs.

With female characters you have the benefit of using their vulnerability to make the viewers care even more and be concerned for them. It's scary when a terminator hunts Sarah Connor or an alien hunts Ripley. But with many modern female characters, they face no danger whatsoever. There is never any heroes journey, where you actually end up losing in the middle. In the middle of modern stories with feminist characters like Rey they discover that they are better at Forcing the Force than trained Jedi / Sith like Kylo Ren and that without any prior training. It's actually ridiculous.

/rant over

PS: I love well written female characters. Give me more characters like Nebula in my superhero movies and less characters like Captain Marvel.

Preaching to the choir here. 👆

Battlestar Galactica 2003 had women, it had gender swapping, and it had women who acted like women. Roslin the school teacher who had to step up in a leadership role, yet still had vulnerability, or Head Six, and all the Six variations, or even Starbuck herself. All of them had character, flaws, and their own womanly charms and traits.

If only Ronald D. Moore could have directed Star Wars.

Originally posted by Enzeru
Who are some of the most well-known female characters in fiction? Let me name few and then decide for yourself if I'm right:

- Sarah Connor from Terminator.
- Ellen Ripley from Alien.
- Laurie Strode from Halloween.
- Katniss Everdeen from the Hunger Games.
- Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
- Lara Croft from Tomb Raider.
- Wonder Woman from DC comics.

What do all of these characters have in common? Again, I'll suggest something and you tell me if I'm onto something: I would say that all of them could have been originally male characters and it wouldn't have made a difference.

Of course it would make a difference. Using your list as examples: Buffy's character concept and development revolves around looking like a damsel in distress while being as powerful as the monsters that classically prey on damsels. Gender dynamics are inherent to that story.

Wonder Woman... is an Amazon. Are you picturing an island of only men made of clay and a gender flipped Wonder Woman as their champion? You think that wouldn't make a difference?

If you don't think Katniss' character changes, then you're not paying attention to the ways she consistently bucks against the expectations placed on her to market herself through dresses and glamor. And I'm trying to picture how audiences would have reacted to a male Laurie Strode making his scream queen debut as he flees Michael Myers.

Originally posted by Enzeru

If you want to write a good female character, you write them like a guy. Because that way everyone can relate to them.

Women are half the population (ish) but we should write all characters as men so that men can relate to all characters?

but they are the lesser half of the population, their needs and emotions should not matter to us superior species

Originally posted by Smurph
this is some dumb bullshit

Of course it would make a difference. Using your list as examples: Buffy's character concept and development revolves around looking like a damsel in distress while being as powerful as the monsters that classically prey on damsels. Gender dynamics are inherent to that story.

Wonder Woman... is an Amazon. Are you picturing an island of only men made of clay and a gender flipped Wonder Woman as their champion? You think that wouldn't make a difference?

If you don't think Katniss' character changes, then you're not paying attention to the ways she consistently bucks against the expectations placed on her to market herself through dresses and glamor. And I'm trying to picture how audiences would have reacted to a male Laurie Strode making his scream queen debut as he flees Michael Myers.

Just pause and take a breath and think about how stupid these sentences are.

Women are half the population (ish) but we should write all characters as men so that men can relate to all characters?

How is a woman and a man supposed to be written Smurph?

Full admission, I was tempted to play stereotypes and play the fool for shits and giggles, but I'm being 100% honest when I say I no longer have any clue how sexes are even supposed to be defined anymore.

It sure isn't based on career, occupation, child rearing, aggressiveness or violence or really anything I can think of now...

Originally posted by MrMind
but they are the lesser half of the population, their needs and emotions should not matter to us superior species

Smurph is Canadian, far below a man like yourself my dung eating friend.

Gonna hat trick this;

Originally posted by Smurph
this is some dumb bullshit

Of course it would make a difference. Using your list as examples: Buffy's character concept and development revolves around looking like a damsel in distress while being as powerful as the monsters that classically prey on damsels. Gender dynamics are inherent to that story.

Wonder Woman... is an Amazon. Are you picturing an island of only men made of clay and a gender flipped Wonder Woman as their champion? You think that wouldn't make a difference?

If you don't think Katniss' character changes, then you're not paying attention to the ways she consistently bucks against the expectations placed on her to market herself through dresses and glamor. And I'm trying to picture how audiences would have reacted to a male Laurie Strode making his scream queen debut as he flees Michael Myers.

Just pause and take a breath and think about how stupid these sentences are.

Women are half the population (ish) but we should write all characters as men so that men can relate to all characters?

Smurph, how much of the audience would this occur to? How much of the audience knows or cares about gender studies topics?

Could most media consumers be like myself, who only sees Buffy as kicking vampire ass, or seeing Katniss as an action star, and changing their sex would affect absolutely nothing for us?

Wonder Woman I'll give you, as the narrative itself places emphesis on gender norms, unlike many of these other examples which you only read into through the prism of your own background/education/biases..

cdtm being on ignore is the best thing this forum has offered me

if i ever get banned just make sure cdtm is banned too

Originally posted by cdtm
Gonna hat trick this;

Smurph, how much of the audience would this occur to? How much of the audience knows or cares about gender studies topics?

Could most media consumers be like myself, who only sees Buffy as kicking vampire ass, or seeing Katniss as an action star, and changing their sex would affect absolutely nothing for us?

Wonder Woman I'll give you, as the narrative itself places emphesis on gender norms, unlike many of these other examples which you only read into through the prism of your own background/education/biases..

Originally posted by MrMind
cdtm being on ignore is the best thing this forum has offered me

if i ever get banned just make sure cdtm is banned too

Originally posted by ODG
I vote in favor of both being banned. 👆

why such hate? did i offend you? i wanna get to know you better odg

what do you do for work? i wanna be your friend

Originally posted by MrMind
why such hate? did i offend you? i wanna get to know you better odg

what do you do for work? i wanna be your friend

Originally posted by ODG

is that the movie black adam i keep hearing about?

Originally posted by MrMind
is that the movie black adam i keep hearing about?

Isn't that Thanos?

is that who it is? that's the thanos i keep hearing from you guys?

look magnificent

Originally posted by Smurph
You think the narrative of Buffy the Vampire Slayer doesn't place emphasis on gender norms?

Not to my recollection no. Her being a stereotype only really cliques for a narrow segment of nerds. For everyone else she's just an action chick, who could as easily be replace by an action guy.

Originally posted by cdtm
Not to my recollection no. Her being a stereotype only really cliques for a narrow segment of nerds. For everyone else she's just an action chick, who could as easily be replace by an action guy.

Well, in this case, seems to me that pleading ignorance doesn't make Enzeru any more correct, it just explains where his mistake is.

Each of the characters that he named would have different life experiences if you change their gender, which means that on some level you would be changing their character.

So no, a well written woman doesn't amount to "write as if she's a man". Does grasping that point really require some sort of background in gender studies? It seems... self evident.

Originally posted by MrMind
is that the movie black adam i keep hearing about?

Originally posted by ODG

now we are talking, i love gifs of slapping women

i knew we could be best friend

thanks for the chat bro, been going through breakup lately, took a day off work just to kmcing, it's been fun