Originally posted by MrMindThis .gif is partly for levity but also in all seriousness...
now we are talking, i love gifs of slapping womeni knew we could be best friend
thanks for the chat bro, been going through breakup lately, took a day off work just to kmcing, it's been fun
You let me know when I can give you sh1t for real, bruh.
Originally posted by SmurphWell, in this case, seems to me that pleading ignorance doesn't make Enzeru any more correct, it just explains where his mistake is.
Each of the characters that he named would have different life experiences if you change their gender, which means that on some level you would be changing their character.
So no, a well written woman doesn't amount to "write as if she's a man". Does grasping that point really require some sort of background in gender studies? It seems... self evident.
My point is that no aspects of a character like Buffy the Vampire Slayer revolve around her trying to smash the vampire patriarchy. They made a spin-off in form of Angel, who was a male vampire hunter, and it was essentially the same show. Just with a male protagonist. You could have swapped Buffy for a guy and you would have had the same result. You could swap Wonder Woman as well, and you would have the same result.
Now look at Captain Marvel. Take central themes of that crapshow-movie and try to apply them to a man. Being told to smile more by a toxic man? Doesn't make sense anymore, does it. Being told by a bunch of toxic men that you can't become a soldier, a pilot or a president, just because of your sex? Doesn't make so much sense anymore either.
How about the crapshow-show She-Hulk? Being dressed like a hooker by a bunch of hookers and being approached by a couple of guys trying to buy you for your services? Doesn't make so much sense, when you have a guy in that position. Trying to sell being catcalled as something more anger-inducing than seeing your father beat your mother and beat you too? Mhhh, it's almost like there is a message without any proper thought or script-doctoring behind it.
I don't give a you-know-what about that messaging. Most men aren't toxic a-holes. Which is why I don't appreciate a single second in entertainment media being spent on demonizing men. Or overly-empowering women, because yes-queen-slay. And the same applies in reverse. An idiot like Andrew Tate could be consumed by the Earth and I wouldn't waste a second thought on him.
My point stands: If you want to write good female characters, you write them like good male characters. Maybe I should have elaborated on that point further:
My exact point is that in order to write a good character, you have to write something EVERYONE can relate to, no matter their sex, sexual orientation, religious beliefs or skin color. I can't relate to She-Hulk, because in pretty much all of the episodes it somehow manages to tackle the twisted perception of "men bad pigs, being woman hard". So as soon as you start demonizing other groups, you lose interest. I've never had a co-worker, who earned less money or had less to say than me. And I make good living and have more responsibility in my job than I'd like to. Obviously there are companies where that's not the case, but I we don't like in the 20s either. Women are allowed to vote. (Did you know that more women voten against voting rights for women than men?)
That's why characters like Sarah Connor or a Ellen Ripley are great characters. Their sex doesn't matter. And even if you swap it, you get the exact same result. They're fundamentally good people, positioned in a story not featuring any demonization of other people. And the same applies even for Wonder Woman, in the bigger picture. Also in Buffy, not only women walking back home at night were victims of supernatural beings, so I don't agree with that being a central theme of the show.
Which Angel and Buffy did you watch bro? Angel was about redemption, buffy was about empowerment. They even did a montage of girls all over the world rising against their male oppressors if subtlety is lost on you.
You'd think a Sentry fan who thinks that the character is deep would at least be able to understand basic theme of a TV show.
Originally posted by Enzeru
The show has 144 episodes and the genius proclaims a montage as the defining factor.
The show is filled with radical for its time feminist agenda and aired the first live TV lesbian sex scene and one of the first openly lesbian characters.
Buffy's mom straight up said "Have you tried not being a Slayer" in the season 2 finale which is as subtle as a hammer to the head for the LGBT themes.
What show did you watch? The themes of the show are not that subtle in the slightest.
Originally posted by abhilegendThe basic premise of the character is to turn the bottle blonde who gets killed by a monster kick the ass of the monster instead.
So basically like turning a nerd, who gets bullied at school, into a superhero, who gets the supermodel wife? Got it.
Originally posted by abhilegendThe show is filled with radical for its time feminist agenda and aired the first live TV lesbian sex scene and one of the first openly lesbian characters.
What feminist agenda? The series creator, Joss Whedon, was supposedly as toxic as it gets on set and called a pregnant actress fat in front of everybody involved.
I don't mind lesbian sex or openly lesbian characters, because in that show they were handled well. What I mind is pandering (diversity done cheaply to be used as a shield against critique) and demonization of normal people, who don't want to be criticized for something they haven't done.
And all of that still doesn't take anything from what I'm saying: Turn Buffy into Benny and you still end up with a character, who hunts demons, dates women, hangs out with his friends, and helps them and his family deal with their problems. That's all you need for good, relatable characters. As soon as you start pushing your political message, you start losing people, who are not interested in that message.
Originally posted by abhilegendBuffy's mom straight up said "Have you tried not being a Slayer" in the season 2 finale which is as subtle as a hammer to the head for the LGBT themes.
Wut? You think it's a nod to LGBT themes in the show (which are minuscule compared to pretty much everything else) and not her not watching her daughter to die in the fight against demons from hell? Bro, stop. Stop.
Originally posted by abhilegendWhat show did you watch? The themes of the show are not that subtle in the slightest.
I don't even disagree with you. Willow being gay is LGB stuff done right, because it feels natural the way they've portrayed it. How many episodes out of those 144 dealt with that arc though? How much of an episodes length was spent on that topic? I feel like I always got everything I wanted from the show: Sarah Michelle Geller being a 10/10 and killing demons.
Willow and her girlfriend were lesbians. Xander got the short side of the stick. A pity. You know who wasn't gay? Iceman. You know whose comic spent over half of its length on homosexual themes? Iceman. I don't mind gay characters. I mind characters being turned gay for reasons. I don't mind gay characters in media. I mind gay characters in media, because the creators want to virtue-signal for blue-haired whales on Twitter, who list all the mental illnesses they have in their bio. Because at that point you're clearly not interested in telling a good story. You're more interested in giving interviews to CBR and all those other sites about how people, who don't buy your comics, are Orange-Man-hating white supremacists.
I'm done with this topic. You've all turned it into something that it's not, because in the end of the day: Ellen Ripley and Sarah Connor were great characters and them being female played no role in it. You could have swapped them with male characters and everything would have remained the same.
Originally posted by Enzeru
So basically like turning a nerd, who gets bullied at school, into a superhero, who gets the supermodel wife? Got it.What feminist agenda? The series creator, Joss Whedon, was supposedly as toxic as it gets on set and called a pregnant actress fat in front of everybody involved.
I don't mind lesbian sex or openly lesbian characters, because in that show they were handled well. What I mind is pandering (diversity done cheaply to be used as a shield against critique) and demonization of normal people, who don't want to be criticized for something they haven't done.
And all of that still doesn't take anything from what I'm saying: Turn Buffy into Benny and you still end up with a character, who hunts demons, dates women, hangs out with his friends, and helps them and his family deal with their problems. That's all you need for good, relatable characters. As soon as you start pushing your political message, you start losing people, who are not interested in that message.
Wut? You think it's a nod to LGBT themes in the show (which are minuscule compared to pretty much everything else) and not her not watching her daughter to die in the fight against demons from hell? Bro, stop. Stop.
I don't even disagree with you. Willow being gay is LGB stuff done right, because it feels natural the way they've portrayed it. How many episodes out of those 144 dealt with that arc though? How much of an episodes length was spent on that topic? I feel like I always got everything I wanted from the show: Sarah Michelle Geller being a 10/10 and killing demons.
Willow and her girlfriend were lesbians. Xander got the short side of the stick. A pity. You know who wasn't gay? Iceman. You know whose comic spent over half of its length on homosexual themes? Iceman. I don't mind gay characters. I mind characters being turned gay for reasons. I don't mind gay characters in media. I mind gay characters in media, because the creators want to virtue-signal for blue-haired whales on Twitter, who list all the mental illnesses they have in their bio. Because at that point you're clearly not interested in telling a good story. You're more interested in giving interviews to CBR and all those other sites about how people, who don't buy your comics, are Orange-Man-hating white supremacists.
I'm done with this topic. You've all turned it into something that it's not, because in the end of the day: Ellen Ripley and Sarah Connor were great characters and them being female played no role in it. You could have swapped them with male characters and everything would have remained the same.
Or The Boys graphic anal... thing.
That's for what, 2% of the population? Why should us 98% hetero's be grossed out for equality?
Edit: Before someone says it, I know gay is more than 2%.
I'm talking about perverts, not all lgbt are into fisting any more than all heteros are into hampsters up the pooper.
The Boys scene was for nobody, who the heck wants that shite.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Want some good female characters?Watch porn.
😂
Or Battlestar Galactica 2003.
Seriously I get what he's saying, it's not even about idealogy, it's about punditry.
Like how The Woman King or Ghostbusters 2016 tried to make a big deal about having women in lead roles and black women in lead roles, and ignored that their product was shite.
Originally posted by Enzeru
So basically like turning a nerd, who gets bullied at school, into a superhero, who gets the supermodel wife? Got it.
Except nerds getting powers is a theme that's older than the dirt. This was one of the first woman centric TV shows.
What feminist agenda? The series creator, Joss Whedon, was supposedly as toxic as it gets on set and called a pregnant actress fat in front of everybody involved.
I think you are dumb as a rock.
https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/3/10/14868588/buffy-the-vampire-slayer-feminism-20th-anniversary
Buffy is one of the most researched TV shows ever. A single Google search will tell you that.
I don't mind lesbian sex or openly lesbian characters, because in that show they were handled well. What I mind is pandering (diversity done cheaply to be used as a shield against critique) and demonization of normal people, who don't want to be criticized for something they haven't done.
😂
Willow turns lesbian on the drop of a hat. Watch season 1-3 and there's not even a hint of Willow being gay. In fact she is disgusted by Doppleganger Willow and calls herself gay as a slur. The original plan was to turn Xander gay and there's a ton of foreshadowing of him being gay. Wheldon made willow gay because he was told Xander couldn't be revealed as gay.
And all of that still doesn't take anything from what I'm saying: Turn Buffy into Benny and you still end up with a character, who hunts demons, dates women, hangs out with his friends, and helps them and his family deal with their problems. That's all you need for good, relatable characters. As soon as you start pushing your political message, you start losing people, who are not interested in that message.
Benny the Vampire Slayer would get cancelled by its pilot. You have zero media literacy.
Wut? You think it's a nod to LGBT themes in the show (which are minuscule compared to pretty much everything else) and not her not watching her daughter to die in the fight against demons from hell? Bro, stop. Stop.
Dear God, you're dumber than a rock.
https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/a33213078/buffy-the-vampire-slayer-queer-lgbtq/
You think this is regarding demons? Below are the questions Joyce asks.
“Honey, are you sure you’re a slayer?”
“Have you tried not being a slayer?”
“It’s ‘cause you didn’t have a strong father figure, isn’t it?”
“You can’t just drop something like this on me and pretend it’s nothing!”
I don't even disagree with you. Willow being gay is LGB stuff done right, because it feels natural the way they've portrayed it. How many episodes out of those 144 dealt with that arc though? How much of an episodes length was spent on that topic? I feel like I always got everything I wanted from the show: Sarah Michelle Geller being a 10/10 and killing demons.Willow and her girlfriend were lesbians. Xander got the short side of the stick. A pity. You know who wasn't gay? Iceman.
Guess which one you are upset about.
You know whose comic spent over half of its length on homosexual themes? Iceman. I don't mind gay characters. I mind characters being turned gay for reasons. I don't mind gay characters in media. I mind gay characters in media, because the creators want to virtue-signal for blue-haired whales on Twitter, who list all the mental illnesses they have in their bio. Because at that point you're clearly not interested in telling a good story. You're more interested in giving interviews to CBR and all those other sites about how people, who don't buy your comics, are Orange-Man-hating white supremacists.
All of this applies Willow to a dot who wasn't even supposed to be gay till season 4.
https://www.salon.com/2003/05/20/whedon/
I'm done with this topic. You've all turned it into something that it's not, because in the end of the day: Ellen Ripley and Sarah Connor were great characters and them being female played no role in it. You could have swapped them with male characters and everything would have remained the same.
You're an idiot, simple as that.
Let me add my own perspective here:
The Uber files revealed that the heads of Uber incited their drivers into protests against traditional cab drivers. They framed it as protesting for something that matters. One of the CEO's directly said riots are good for business, because after a few days of arson and looting they get to propose the solution.
Now, you can apply this to Ghostbusters 2016 easily, as they were using feminism as a shield against criticism of their product.
And you can take this logic into everything else and ask "Ok, why is Iceman suddenly gay? What's the angle here?"
Maybe it's just good willed activism form writers and artists, maybe the company is just shaking things up because sales stagnated, or maybe something else is happening.
But I'll tell you this, mixing business with grassroots activism was the worst thing to happen to grass roots activism, because nobody likes to being manipulated just to make somebody a buck.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Want some good female characters?Watch porn.
US right wing is mostly filled with idiots dumber than rocks though, like this enzeru guyy. That's the main problem.