Looks like Snowden was a Russian asset

Originally posted by StyleTime
A general post to some things said in the thread:

There seems to be multiple ideas being discussed here.

The acts of whistleblowing should be celebrated and venerated. Hopefully, future whistleblowers won't be too afraid for their lives to come forward with similar information.

If an individual whistleblower commits some other heinous act, like human trafficking, then they should be prosecuted; however, they should be prosecuted for that crime separately.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
not at all, in theory I agree with a lot of that. Do you think the security agencies surveillance you less now? I

Erdoğan or Putin would have had him killed by now.

He could have been killed here, especially if it hadn't garnered so much media attention. Even if he wasn't, sitting in political prison after undergoing an unjust "trial" as a spy isn't some great outcome. I don't really blame him for leaving.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
It becomes more difficult to mobilise if your own Government is distrusted. Snowden can only do what he did in relatively democratic countries. In terms of who gains most by someone's ineffectual actions, probably in this case whoever wants a weak America... maybe the same people who marched into Ukraine.

If they wanted to protect us, and make a strong America, they'd stop creating the circumstances abroad that literally breed the "terrorists" we're fighting against. They'd stop engaging in wars-for-profit at the behest of defense companies who bankroll congresspeople. They'd stop bombing brown people so that contractors can make money in post-war reconstruction of places we decimate.

If there was a genuine immediate threat to us, most people would be co-operative for security's sake. We mobilized quite fine when we were lied to about Iraq.

I get it. I'm far more left than most Americans, so many won't agree with me. I just don't get how they see these whistleblowers as the threat to national security and not the profiteers starting the damn wars.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Of course, we won't stop all of it. We should still stop and prosecute them when we do discover it happening though.

He could have been killed here, especially if it hadn't garnered so much media attention. Even if he wasn't, sitting in political prison after undergoing an unjust "trial" as a spy isn't some great outcome. I don't really blame him for leaving.

I don't know about the UK, but this "national security" lie has been a fear mongering tool by US conservatives for a while now. It's used to justify any and all government overreach, by simply throwing out the "national security" line whether or not it actually applies. Democrats are fairly right leaning on foreign policy, so they use it too.

If they wanted to protect us, and make a strong America, they'd stop creating the circumstances abroad that literally breed the "terrorists" we're fighting against. They'd stop engaging in wars-for-profit at the behest of defense companies who bankroll congresspeople. They'd stop bombing brown people so that contractors can make money in post-war reconstruction of places we decimate.

If there was a genuine immediate threat to us, most people would be co-operative for security's sake. We mobilized quite fine when we were lied to about Iraq.

I get it. I'm far more left than most Americans, so many won't agree with me. I just don't get how they see these whistleblowers as the threat to national security and not the profiteers starting the damn wars.

You are far to intelligent to be taken in. But, the vast majority of people in my own country weren't, and this constant erosion of the old standards led to Brexit.

Truth, Snowden's observations were something the world should know. Truth did it help undermine US security and US peoples faith more importantly in its security agencies and help lead eventually to Trumps attacks on the CIA and FBI? Almost certainly.

Which was the man in Russia's primary motivation?

Originally posted by StyleTime

If they wanted to protect us, and make a strong America, they'd stop creating the circumstances abroad that literally breed the "terrorists" we're fighting against. They'd stop engaging in wars-for-profit at the behest of defense companies who bankroll congresspeople. They'd stop bombing brown people so that contractors can make money in post-war reconstruction of places we decimate.

Bingo.

We claim to be slightly more aware/awake in the UK, yet so far weve followed the US on foreign policy for the most part.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Bingo.

We claim to be slightly more aware/awake in the UK, yet so far weve followed the US on foreign policy for the most part.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
There is a genuine threat to you ST, and almost 30% of your voting population believe that you are Governed by the deep state, who manipulated an election and these people offer tacit support for the Jan 6 insurrection attempt; because they have been misdirected. You now have a narrative which is creating terrorists at home. The narrative is the general truth isn't truth and you should hate the truth.

You are far to intelligent to be taken in. But, the vast majority of people in my own country weren't, and this constant erosion of the old standards led to Brexit.

Truth, Snowden's observations were something the world should know. Truth did it help undermine US security and US peoples faith more importantly in its security agencies and help lead eventually to Trumps attacks on the CIA and FBI? Almost certainly.

Which was the man in Russia's primary motivation?

The government makes martyrs out of these people, and continue to do so, by not exonerating them. That contributes to distrust -- letting the actual government agencies off the hook and leaving the whistleblowers in exile.

With Trump, I feel like he would have had that success regardless. "REEEE! The liberal media!" mentality was around long before any of this. Trump just happened to be a charismatic enough demagogue to capitalize on it. They take a small nugget of truth and run to wild extremes with it. There is a deep state, but it's not like what they think.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Of course, we won't stop all of it. We should still stop and prosecute them when we do discover it happening though.

He could have been killed here, especially if it hadn't garnered so much media attention. Even if he wasn't, sitting in political prison after undergoing an unjust "trial" as a spy isn't some great outcome. I don't really blame him for leaving.

I don't know about the UK, but this "national security" lie has been a fear mongering tool by US conservatives for a while now. It's used to justify any and all government overreach, by simply throwing out the "national security" line whether or not it actually applies. Democrats are fairly right leaning on foreign policy, so they use it too.

If they wanted to protect us, and make a strong America, they'd stop creating the circumstances abroad that literally breed the "terrorists" we're fighting against. They'd stop engaging in wars-for-profit at the behest of defense companies who bankroll congresspeople. They'd stop bombing brown people so that contractors can make money in post-war reconstruction of places we decimate.

If there was a genuine immediate threat to us, most people would be co-operative for security's sake. We mobilized quite fine when we were lied to about Iraq.

I get it. I'm far more left than most Americans, so many won't agree with me. I just don't get how they see these whistleblowers as the threat to national security and not the profiteers starting the damn wars.

I mean, it can be both things at the same time, the Cons can dog whistle about the deep state, and the feds can be abusive.

The NYPD corruption is fact, you think that sort of corruption is limited to them? Because I think it's systemic to all large and powerful organizations.

You know about Michael Hastings death, right? He was setting up an expose on the feds, claimed they joked about killing him, and 'lo and behold his car malfunctions and he crashes to his death before his story could break.

Edward Snowden was an agent of white supremacy. His wiki leaks was all about keeping the white man on top.

What a gutless honky.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Whatever negatives anyone levels at the UK and US and plenty are warranted. You are free to say that in either. In many other countries you are not and dare not.

Well they dont treat their own as badly as they do others. You can take that as a positive.

But honestly, could just be they figured long ago, that protesting and debating really isnt a threat to them. Especially when mainstream media pretty much controls how we think, added to an electorate system that isnt very representative and essentially gives us a limited choice (much more so in the U.S).

I mean Tony Blair used to say that a lot with the protests towards the Iraq War, that at least we can protest unlike in Iraq. But what good did that do? Didnt stop us taking part in the war.

However when they do see someone as a threat (aka Assange) we quickly realise how free we really are.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well they dont treat their own as badly as they do others. You can take that as a positive.

But honestly, could just be they figured long ago, that protesting and debating really isnt a threat to them. Especially when mainstream media pretty much controls how we think, added to an electorate system that isnt very representative and essentially gives us a limited choice (much more so in the U.S).

I mean Tony Blair used to say that a lot with the protests towards the Iraq War, that at least we can protest unlike in Iraq. But what good did that do? Didnt stop us taking part in the war.

However when they do see someone as a threat (aka Assange) we quickly realise how free we really are.

https://www.carlbernstein.com/the-cia-and-the-media-rolling-stone-10-20-1977

https://fcpp.org/2021/06/28/the-cias-media-assets/

Well documented not conspiracy.

The news is hopelessly compromised and has been for some time.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well they dont treat their own as badly as they do others. You can take that as a positive.

But honestly, could just be they figured long ago, that protesting and debating really isnt a threat to them. Especially when mainstream media pretty much controls how we think, added to an electorate system that isnt very representative and essentially gives us a limited choice (much more so in the U.S).

I mean Tony Blair used to say that a lot with the protests towards the Iraq War, that at least we can protest unlike in Iraq. But what good did that do? Didnt stop us taking part in the war.

However when they do see someone as a threat (aka Assange) we quickly realise how free we really are.