Originally posted by abhilegend
Surfer can't do any of the kryptonite based stuff
Originally posted by abhilegend
and he needs to create a red sun to gradually depower Superman.
- Justice League (2006) #23
Originally posted by abhilegend
Not in his capacity.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Surfer is simply not powerful enough to hurt Superman anymore.
It's not even like you could argue that Supes is faster either, because Surfer is already his peer in speed. But Surfer can also stop time, like he did in Unbeatable Squirrel Girl (2018 )#29, then what?
Originally posted by abhilegend
Mind you, that's the destruction of a sun eater the size of a nebula and Superman is already weakened by the red sun blasts by a freaking sun eater.Marvel fans are retarded.
You're right in that he was weakened by the red-stellar radiation rays, whether that played a difference or is up for debate. Not that it matters particularly, because Superman has been taken out by a supernova an astronomical unit away before, notwithstanding every time he's been taken out by far less impressive explosions.
Originally posted by Astner- Action Comics #867
And that's just durability. Even in categories where you'd think Superman should have the advantage he doesn't. Surfer has wrestled with characters like Gladiator, and even more powerful characters like Morg and Ravenous where the clashes literally disintegrated the planets, and then you have stuff like Surfer punching Cosmic Ghost Rider to another galaxy.
- Cosmic Ghost Rider Destroys Marvel History #1
When did Superman ever punch someone to a different galaxy? Never.
As for your Green Lantern feats, Superman doesn't have the abilities of Green Lanterns, and his track record with black holes are terrible. Heralds on the other hand has a fair amount of good ones, didn't Terrax literally use one to hide in? No shields, nothing. He just lived in there.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Mind you, even Valor who Superman beat black and blue oneshotted Unimaginable who literally causes suns to go supernova and drains them to gain his power.Unimaginable caused a sun to go supernova and drained its energy just two issues ago.
Confirmed in its profile entry.
I showed you an instance of Superman getting knocked out by a star caused to go supernova. Unless you can point to an instance where Superman brushes off supernovae (like Surfer regularly does) then this point is forfeited.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Erm....are you serious about that Surfer punching GR to another galaxy?
Originally posted by Astner
Why wouldn't he? It's just a type of radiation.
He doesn't know about it.
No, he can do what Amazo did and just blast him with red solar radiation. It took down Supes instantly.- Justice League (2006) #23
It takes entire stars to drain him slowly these days, random red sun blasts don't do much.
That's bullshit and you know it.
Its not.
What? You already agree that Surfer could blast Superman with red stellar radiation, are you seriously arguing that this is no longer a weakness of Superman, or what's your angle here?
It takes a red sun to depower Superman. Good luck for Surfer to create a red sun.
It's not even like you could argue that Supes is faster either, because Surfer is already his peer in speed.
But Surfer can also stop time, like he did in Unbeatable Squirrel Girl (2018 )#29, then what?
He can already move in a time stop.
Why would the size of it matter? It says it right there, 50 times the energy of the Kepler supernova. That's what we're dealing with. And it would've disintegrated Clark at touch.
Because Surfer has never even taken that size of a supernova?
You're right in that he was weakened by the red-stellar radiation rays, whether that played a difference or is up for debate. Not that it matters particularly, because Superman has been taken out by a supernova an astronomical unit away before, notwithstanding every time he's been taken out by far less impressive explosions.
That'd be noteworthy if Surfer had ever taken a supernova blast.
And that's just durability. Even in categories where you'd think Superman should have the advantage he doesn't. Surfer has wrestled with characters like Gladiator, and even more powerful characters like Morg and Ravenous where the clashes literally disintegrated the planets,
Oh no, planets? No, really? You really want to compare Superman's strength to Surfer's?
and then you have stuff like Surfer punching Cosmic Ghost Rider to another galaxy.- Cosmic Ghost Rider Destroys Marvel History #1
When did Superman ever punch someone to a different galaxy? Never.
Its a made up story, you idiot. Did you even read the comic?
As for your Green Lantern feats, Superman doesn't have the abilities of Green Lanterns, and his track record with black holes are terrible.
Heralds on the other hand has a fair amount of good ones, didn't Terrax literally use one to hide in? No shields, nothing. He just lived in there.
Good thing Surfer almost died in a black hole just two years ago then, huh?
Originally posted by Astner
[B]Why would this even matter? They're two different characters. This is like saying that Superman should have telepathic abilities because he beat up a guy who beat up Martian Manhunter.
Valor is a daxamite, literally the same powers of Superman but weaker.
http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx28/PhilosophiaKMC/SupesvsEclipsoLar1.jpg
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I showed you an instance of Superman getting knocked out by a star caused to go supernova. Unless you can point to an instance where Superman brushes off supernovae (like Surfer regularly does) then this point is forfeited.
Where did Surfer brush off a supernova to begin with?
It's hilarious marvel fans think destroying a planet is somehow impressive these days when this type of stuff happens every few months in DC for last few years.
Orion destroyed a solar system fighting a golem which shook the entire multiverse waking up : Hal Jordan and Green Lantern Corps 26
Starfire generated power equal to five hypernovae : Justice League Odyssey 12
Superman/Zod/Rogol Zaar shake entire phantom zone fighting: Superman 2018 4/5/6
Superman fights equally with Molly the keeper who was moving entire solar system to the end of the time and space: Justice League 2016 Timeless Arc
Superman shattered chains able to haul stars across the galaxies : Superman up in the sky 6
Superman powered up Earth's sun after it was extinguished: Dark Nights Death Metal 3
Superman overpowered a living sun: Dark Nights Death Metal 6
Hal killed a sun eater in one blast: Green Lantern Season 1
Hal AFTER killing the sun eater created another sun with two other Lanterns: Green Lantern Season 1
Kyle created a fully fledged sun to kill vampires: Dark Nights Death metal Multiverse End
Wonder Woman moved Earth's sun : Wonder Woman Blue and Gold 5
Supergirl is stated to be able to move stars, tanks attacks that could shatter galaxies before going down: Supergirl Woman of Tomorrow 7/8
Originally posted by Smurph
Where in the issue is that?
Originally posted by abhilegend
Justice League Odyssey had a mind boggling feat for Darkseid. Starfire goes apeshit on a weakened Darkseid, he tanks it and blasts her away.She powered up Sepulkore which needed to be powered up by energy equivalent to five hypernovae.
****ing insane, Sepulkore moved the entire galaxy outside the known multiverse at FTL speeds.
Originally posted by abhilegend
He doesn't know about it.
Originally posted by abhilegend
It takes entire stars to drain him slowly these days, random red sun blasts don't do much.
Originally posted by abhilegend
It takes a red sun to depower Superman. Good luck for Surfer to create a red sun.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Hahaha, not even close to being a peer. Superman is so much faster than Surfer, it's not even funny.
Originally posted by abhilegend
He can already move in a time stop.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Because Surfer has never even taken that size of a supernova?
Originally posted by abhilegend
That'd be noteworthy if Surfer had ever taken a supernova blast.
And he's repeatedly done it ever since.
Also, he surfed the waves of Galactus' blast that swept away a galaxy.
Although this flashback from Thanos Imperative might be a bit misleading, I don't remember whether or it happened in the Annihilation arc.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Oh no, planets? No, really? You really want to compare Superman's strength to Surfer's?
Originally posted by abhilegend
Its a made up story, you idiot. Did you even read the comic?
Originally posted by abhilegend
Really? Do tell.
Either way, black hole feats aren't even reliable to begin with because they're not quantifiable. But with the supernovae that Surfer plays around with and leaves Supes comatosed, it's safe to concldue that Surfer is on another level.
Originally posted by abhilegend
It's hilarious marvel fans think destroying a planet is somehow impressive these days when this type of stuff happens every few months in DC for last few years.Orion destroyed a solar system fighting a golem which shook the entire multiverse waking up : Hal Jordan and Green Lantern Corps 26
Starfire generated power equal to five hypernovae : Justice League Odyssey 12
Superman/Zod/Rogol Zaar shake entire phantom zone fighting: Superman 2018 4/5/6
Superman fights equally with Molly the keeper who was moving entire solar system to the end of the time and space: Justice League 2016 Timeless Arc
Superman shattered chains able to haul stars across the galaxies : Superman up in the sky 6
Superman powered up Earth's sun after it was extinguished: Dark Nights Death Metal 3
Superman overpowered a living sun: Dark Nights Death Metal 6
Hal killed a sun eater in one blast: Green Lantern Season 1
Hal AFTER killing the sun eater created another sun with two other Lanterns: Green Lantern Season 1
Kyle created a fully fledged sun to kill vampires: Dark Nights Death metal Multiverse End
Wonder Woman moved Earth's sun : Wonder Woman Blue and Gold 5
Supergirl is stated to be able to move stars, tanks attacks that could shatter galaxies before going down: Supergirl Woman of Tomorrow 7/8
Originally posted by abhilegend
Kyle created a fully fledged sun
Originally posted by AstnerAnd you want to compare this to an actual star. Because he called it an "artificial sun."
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Yeah, as vague and questionable as Surfer's infant sun I guess
Originally posted by Astner- Silver Surfer: Black #1
And there are other feats on this scale as well. Such when the Surfer generated a black hole so massive it was visible from outside of the galaxy.
Originally posted by Astner
Considering he could just generate a black hole like he did against the Genocide Wave, and I don't think anyone would be powerful or quick enough to stop him.- Annihilation: Silver Surfer #1
There's also the one time in his fight against Uni-Lord where he blew away a notable chunk of a galaxy, although he had absorbed Blackbody's power for that.
Nevertheless, it's far above Kyle's 10-meters-in-diameter construct.
But the worst part is that these aren't even Superman's feats. You don't see me trying to project Quasar's or Thor's feats on Surfer, why? Because it would be disingenuous. Supes has appeared in over ten times as many comics as the Surfer, if you can't sift out comparable showings from that, then what's there even to debate?
Originally posted by Astner
Actually, he does. One of the perks of cosmic awareness.
Cosmic awareness doesn't work that way. It's an energy sensory detection sense.
No. Red star-light works much like Kryptonite: however the writer wants it to work. But it's still a weakness that drains his powers.
Feats matter. Mongul had to use dust collected from a thousand red suns to weaken Superman, recently he had to create entire red suns beneath Warworld to weaken Superman again.
Surfer simply can't produce enough red sun radiation.
Supes has never absorbed a whole star's worth of red starlight and Surfer has literally created a star. We've been over this.
A small star you mean?
No, he's not.
But it's not like speed matters to someone who can stop time at whim.
Superman can move in total time stop. Try again.
No, he can't. I know what scene you're referring to and slowing down time is not the same as stopping time. Even then, Superman had great difficulty to adjust his senses to counteract the slowing down of time, dazing him.
Oh ye of little faith.
Time stop gets overpowered by Superboy, forget about Superman.
https://i.postimg.cc/ZRZgmP3V/image.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/1tHd3grP/image.jpg
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Based on what? As far as we know it wasn't exceptional in any regard.
Its a sun eater, the size of a Nebula (which averages across lightyears in size).
Really? In his first appearance he surfed a supernova.And he's repeatedly done it ever since.
So surfers who surf hundreds of feet tall ocean waves are what, superhuman?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_surfing_records
You don't need exceptional durability to surf an ocean wave.
Also, he surfed the waves of Galactus' blast that swept away a galaxy.Although this flashback from Thanos Imperative might be a bit misleading, I don't remember whether or it happened in the Annihilation arc.
He stayed ahead of the blast and it only destroyed three star systems.
You're seriously just throwing random shit now.
Yes. Let's be honest. Superman has Herald speed, strength, and durability. That's it. All his other abilities do not meet the Herald standard. Surfer, on the other hand, have all of them. Telepathy, matter-energy transmutation, energy absorption, time manipulation, you name it.
Superman is stronger than all of the heralds of Galactus combined.
He's astronomically more powerful than Surfer, he can reignite Earth's sun under his own power for Months, Surfer almost exploded draining a small solar flare from it.
https://i.postimg.cc/2jPTYSrt/image.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/fTmCRQbR/image.jpg
While Superman powers an extinguished sun back to full using his own power.
https://readcomicsonline.ru/uploads/manga/dark-nights-death-metal-guidebook-2020/chapters/1/16.jpg
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Oh, I see what you're getting at here. But you're wrong. It's a recount of what happened to him for baby Thanos, and yes, it is a bit touched up. But we're exposed to more of the story than what's being told, e.g. in the very next panel we see an interaction between Surfer and Galactus that actually happened since it's goes against Ghost Rider's narrative of Surfer "being jealous."
Its a made up story, you idiot.
https://i.postimg.cc/wBcnysT3/image.jpg
He was telling a story which never happened as revealed in the issue 6 last page.
The miniature black hole the size of contained in a device that almost killed Superman and everyone around him when some of its gravity leaked out. There's also one where he confirmed he'd die if he'd get caught in it, but I can't remember where that's from, so I'll leave it out.
That's past stuff. Currently even 11 year old Kryptonians can tank black holes.
https://postimg.cc/hf9gp8Gh
https://postimg.cc/68cKN9nX
Either way, black hole feats aren't even reliable to begin with because they're not quantifiable. But with the supernovae that Surfer plays around with and leaves Supes comatosed, it's safe to concldue that Surfer is on another level.
He's not even teenage Kryptonian level, forget about Superman level lol.
Originally posted by Astner
I disagree, there's no implications that the star Surfer created was artificial.
While simultaneously,arguing Surfer's infant sun is a sun/infant doesn't necessarily mean small, despite the script clearly states it is a miniature star. You chalked it up to it is just artistic description....but at the same time, you usee an art to claim Kyle's sun is small
Originally posted by Astner
Every few months, huh? Funny, because not one of these feats was published this year, and most of them are either extremely vague and questionable, or straight up bullshit. Like this gem right here:
Originally posted by Astner
I disagree, there's no implications that the star Surfer created was artificial.
Did it destroy the planet it was on with 75 jupiter gravity?
And there are other feats on this scale as well. Such when the Surfer generated a black hole so massive it was visible from outside of the galaxy.
That's not the black hole, those debris are already there because of the planets Annihilation Wave destroyed.
And Thanos was nearby, not outside galaxy lol.
There's also the one time in his fight against Uni-Lord where he blew away a notable chunk of a galaxy, although he had absorbed Blackbody's power for that.
We are going to non canon unilord saga now, eh?
Nevertheless, it's far above Kyle's 10-meters-in-diameter construct.
Its not. But good try.
But the worst part is that these aren't even Superman's feats. You don't see me trying to project Quasar's or Thor's feats on Surfer, why? Because it would be disingenuous. Supes has appeared in over ten times as many comics as the Surfer, if you can't sift out comparable showings from that, then what's there even to debate?
😂
Did Surfer's not artificial sun destroy the planet it was on?
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Yeah, but you were arguing Kyle's sun isn't a sun/a small sun, despite the fact artificial doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't have the properties of a sun/is a sun.While simultaneously,arguing Surfer's infant sun is a sun/infant doesn't necessarily mean small, despite the script clearly states it is a miniature star. You chalked it up to it is just artistic description....but at the same time, you usee an art to claim Kyle's sun is small
GASP
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Yeah, but you were arguing Kyle's sun isn't a sun/a small sun, despite the fact artificial doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't have the properties of a sun/is a sun.
Don't get me wrong, it's a useful ability against vampires. But that's where its usefulness begins and ends.
Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
While simultaneously,arguing Surfer's infant sun is a sun/infant doesn't necessarily mean small, despite the script clearly states it is a miniature star. You chalked it up to it is just artistic description....
Originally posted by Astner
It noticeably didn't have any of the relevant properties of the Sun. Not the volume, and not the gravity (or mass).Don't get me wrong, it's a useful ability against vampires. But that's where its usefulness begins and ends.
Yeah, and what exactly did Surfer's star do except give some light?
No, I said it didn't matter. Because it's an actual star. Even if it's a small star you're still looking at a sextillion times size-difference. These feats are not comparable.
So did Surfer's actual star destroy the planet it was on or not?
Originally posted by Astner
It noticeably didn't have any of the relevant properties of the Sun. Not the volume, and not the gravity (or mass).Don't get me wrong, it's a useful ability against vampires. But that's where its usefulness begins and ends.
No, I said it didn't matter. Because it's an actual star. Even if it's a small star you're still looking at a sextillion times size-difference. These feats are not comparable.
What I'm saying is, I think both of instances are very similar. But you seem have much higher opinion for Surfer's feat than Kyle's
