Weakest person

Jiren attack isn't a one off though or hyperbole or PIS, he's naturally that powerful whereas the instances dark named is a one off and doesn't normally apply to that characters abilities. We wouldn't call those average showings for those characters. If we made a Cho or Supergirl vs Galactus thread, mentioning any of these fts would be laughable because at the end of the day, neither are powerful enough to defeat Galactus. If we made a Jiren vs Galactus thread, it'll be spite with Jiren caving Galactus head in because he's just that powerful. So one offs are just that, one offs whereas pure power and being able to repeat that power is what Jiren is. Then, he wasn't even using a percentage of his power there.

Originally posted by carver9
Jiren attack isn't a one off though or hyperbole or PIS, he's naturally that powerful whereas the instances dark named is a one off and doesn't normally apply to that characters abilities. We wouldn't call those average showings for those characters. If we made a Cho or Supergirl vs Galactus thread, mentioning any of these fts would be laughable because at the end of the day, neither are powerful enough to defeat Galactus. If we made a Jiren vs Galactus thread, it'll be spite with Jiren caving Galactus head in because he's just that powerful. So one offs are just that, one offs whereas pure power and being able to repeat that power is what Jiren is. Then, he wasn't even using a percentage of his power there.

But why are you suddenly limiting it to 'showings that don't normally apply to that characters' abilities'?

You wanted showings, I named three off the top of my head that all occurred in a canon comic, no context needed.

He does it consistently:

He even says: ahhh the good old million decibels - gets them every time

It's no one-off.

That's just an example. So for this thread? Owlman is the weakest person who can take that attack.

A million decibels is enough to destroy the universe (someone check my maths). Possibly several times over. Owlman took that, in a canon comic.

You want to argue that Cyborg is using hyperbole? PIS? Then we get into a circular argument.

Here is Cho doing 123.2 on the Richter scale...and climbing. That's universal++ energy right there, and it's not hyperbole, someone is actually measuring it:

clearly the writers just don't understand that seismic and decibel units are logarithmic rather than linear. because 123 on the richter scale or 1 million decibels should have decimated the observable universe. but owlman and the moon were just fine after those attacks.

so what makes more sense? that owlman and the marvel moon have universal durability, or that the writers just have no clue what they're talking about in those instances?

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
clearly the writers just don't understand that seismic and decibel units are logarithmic rather than linear. because 123 on the richter scale or 1 million decibels should have decimated the observable universe. but owlman and the moon were just fine after those attacks.

so what makes more sense? that owlman and the marvel moon have universal durability, or that the writers just have no clue what they're talking about in those instances?

But then now you're arguing that DB writers know what universal plus energy attacks will do.

My point is we apply scrutiny equally to both. Accept Jiren outputs universal plus attacks on face value? Ok.

Accept that DBZ writers sat down with physics and biology textbooks and calculated everything nice and neatly with proper scientific method? Ok.

Then we do the same, especially if we are doing a cross genre comparison.

that's not the point. jiren's attack should have been universal any way you slice it, because he scales way above characters who were already universal.

but do you truly believe that it requires universal++ power to defeat owlman or destroy marvel's moon? if so, we should start making IG vs marvel moon threads. 😬

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
that's not the point. jiren's attack should have been universal any way you slice it, because he scales way above characters who were already universal.

but do you truly believe that it requires universal++ power to defeat owlman or destroy marvel's moon? if so, we should start making IG vs marvel moon threads. 😬

But that's the point. You are saying Jiren is universal, despite collateral damage or any other signifier saying otherwise. It's physically impossible to output 'universal damage', if you're trying to apply science and logic to it.

But we handwave it away - suspension of belief. Jiren is that powerful.

So why are we nitpicking Owlman and Cyborg? They are ALL fictional characters. If you allow for one side, and wish to compare with another medium, then you need a consistent basis and methodology otherwise it is as my post on page one said - it's impossible.

but it's really not a stretch to believe that jiren can produce universe destroying attacks, because he scales massively above characters who are already universe level. however it's way more of a stretch to think that owlman and the moon can survive universal attacks.

Then we get into arguments where 'believability' is a factor.

It's a stretch to me that mutations in one's DNA can cause you to grow blue fur and become stronger/more agile. Beastlike, if you will.

It's more of a stretch that mutations enable you to control the weather, or the EM spectrum, or develop something completely fictional like telepathy.

Ergo, Beast's feats are more 'valid', and we disregard Magneto or Storm's entire resume, because it's way too much of a stretch of science and logic to believe DNA mutations give you the power to summon rain.

so do you truly believe that it takes universal power to destroy marvel's moon or kill owlman?

because that would be quite a game changer.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
so do you truly believe that it takes universal power to destroy marvel's moon or kill owlman?

because that would be quite a game changer.

Of course not - and neither was it the writer's intention to do so. I agree with you that they have zero idea on science etc.

Be that as it may, it's still a canon comic, and there's no context to it - Cyborg has, regularly, outputted 1million decibels of white noise.

Jiren used his most powerful attack that is more powerful than anything before it. It's universal.

Originally posted by abhilegend
This tidbit I found in Takion 5 letters page is very interesting. Apparently Hal as Parallax could fire universe destroying blasts (Which we saw in zero hour) yet Takion was more powerful than him.

That would be a monstrous feat for Highfather and Darkseid.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
that's not the point. jiren's attack should have been universal any way you slice it, because he scales way above characters who were already universal.

but do you truly believe that it requires universal++ power to defeat owlman or destroy marvel's moon? if so, we should start making IG vs marvel moon threads. 😬

Who in the ToP destroyed a universe?

Originally posted by carver9
Jiren attack isn't a one off though or hyperbole or PIS, he's naturally that powerful whereas the instances dark named is a one off and doesn't normally apply to that characters abilities. We wouldn't call those average showings for those characters. If we made a Cho or Supergirl vs Galactus thread, mentioning any of these fts would be laughable because at the end of the day, neither are powerful enough to defeat Galactus. If we made a Jiren vs Galactus thread, it'll be spite with Jiren caving Galactus head in because he's just that powerful. So one offs are just that, one offs whereas pure power and being able to repeat that power is what Jiren is. Then, he wasn't even using a percentage of his power there.

The fact is, this is all hyperbole.

Cell can't destroy a galaxy, Buu can't destroy a universe, Dragon Ball tops off at Mountain Busting. Planet busting is the rare event.

The fact is we debate on feats. Who actually did what, not what was said someone can do.

No feats, then it's hyperbole.

Originally posted by carver9
Jiren used his most powerful attack that is more powerful than anything before it. It's universal.

Yeah I'm not questioning it.

I'm saying on face value, Cyborg outputs universe busting attacks, more than once, and people can take it.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah I'm not questioning it.

I'm saying on face value, Cyborg outputs universe busting attacks, more than once, and people can take it.

If Cyborg tiering is universal, then I can not dispute it. Answer this, is he planetary, Mobius? Let's dip it a little further, is he even city busting level? If not, then we can end this dispute. If he is city busting or planetary, at his power level shown here. Please explain why. Please don't resort to fts outside of this. Look at it the same way you looked at the Galactus that fought Cosmic Herald Thor.

https://ibb.co/rvvyMsD

Originally posted by carver9
If Cyborg tiering is universal, then I can not dispute it. Answer this, is he planetary, Mobius? Let's dip it a little further, is he even city busting level? If not, then we can end this dispute. If he is city busting or planetary, at his power level shown here. Please explain why. Please don't resort to fts outside of this. Look at it the same way you looked at the Galactus that fought Cosmic Herald Thor.

https://ibb.co/rvvyMsD

Tell me how it compares to Cyborg literally saying one million decibels. It's not the same thing

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
clearly the writers just don't understand that seismic and decibel units are logarithmic rather than linear. because 123 on the richter scale or 1 million decibels should have decimated the observable universe. but owlman and the moon were just fine after those attacks.

so what makes more sense? that owlman and the marvel moon have universal durability, or that the writers just have no clue what they're talking about in those instances?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
What's happening in that scan? Break it down for me

Tell me how it compares to Cyborg literally saying one million decibels. It's not the same thing

I'm asking you Mobius power level. Let's not avoid, please. Is he city or planet busting? Yes or no

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah I'm not questioning it.

I'm saying on face value, Cyborg outputs universe busting attacks, more than once, and people can take it.

So just gonna take Carver at his word. How uncharacteristically naive.

Galan himself isn't above questioning, mod status or no, but I suppose you won't ask him to back up any claims either.

I read the manga, seen the animes and movies, and none of the stupid sources or interviews in Japanese or by Toriyama or Toyatoro because I don't consider them relevant to what actually happened on screen or in print. I can authoritatively state that most of Dragon Ball is meaningless "power levels" that have no objective measurements in real world terms (What is.a power level? How many power levels does it take to light a light bulb?), and the other half is big grand statements that never actually happen.

Oh no, Beerus and Goku will destroy the universe by hitting their fists together!!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bW2c3_PyW3Q

First off, the Elder Kai who said this also said Potera Earing fusion was permanent. He was wrong. SSJ God Vegetto only lasted like 15 minutes before breaking.

But we're just supposed to take his word for the universe threat here right?

Even if Beerus himself can break a universe, as his tiff with his bro Champa seemed to indicate, you can't scale that to Goku.

Power scaling, character statements, fan calculations, it is all BULLSHIT.

Maybe you'd figure that out if you actually acted as critically towards the.... fans who are likely boys, as you do to Carver.

Or Maybe your schtick is grabbing at low hanging fruit, and you're just not very good at vetting halfway competent people, I dunno.