Doomsday Vs Immortal Hulk

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
I disagree. as the comic did state/attribute this to his own adaptive/regenerative powers.

https://ibb.co/PCmDxwM
"You have tapping into the memory of Doomsday. The most adaptive createure ever designed. "
"Doomsday could reconstitute himself from whatever was left after death. A scrap of flesh. A nucleotide. it seems even a memory is enough for to reproduce from"

And later when he had the grip on MMH's mind, he was able to spread his egg into physical form via MMH's psychic physiology. Even would have propagated from MMH's mind

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Plus, characters have a specific power doesn't necessarily mean they'll use them(especially in comics' case).
Flash wouldn't do a supercomputing that can predict infinite/every possible outcomes in most of his career doesn't mean he can't do it
Superman can absorb magic at one story doesn't mean he would forcefully draw magic from his opponents he ever faced
Black Adam has transforming magical spell, but he rarely used it doesn't mean he couldn't
etcetc

I was replying to Golgo's question( the appearance of Doomsday in Lazarus Planet event) though

Like Maestro technically "can" regenerate from nothing. But his regeneration from a disembodied spirit couldn't have been done without leeching plot device gamma radiation over multiple instances/years. Maestro coming back is less about his "natural regenerative powers" and more about the plot device that is gamma radiation exposure.

Let's remember, there's a literal piece of Doomsday's knee bone spur out there right now. A physical piece of Doomsday's body which is far more substantial than a psychic imprint that Doomsday might regenerate from. But Doomsday hasn't regenerated from the knee bone spur. All it did was leak genetic residue that took years to mutate a construction worker named Lloyd Clayton into Doombreaker.

Originally posted by ODG
If Doomsday could've done that, he would've before or after Lazarus Planet. It's not like the memory of Doomsday was banished. As it stands, it wasn't until a plot device Lazarus-mutated empath tried to tap the memory did a Doomsday start emerging from Raphael Arce's body. Given that Doomsday never used this power to regenerate from a memory until specific circumstances and plot devices conveniently appeared tends against Doomsday having this ability.

Like Maestro technically "can" regenerate from nothing. But his regeneration from a disembodied spirit couldn't have been done without leeching plot device gamma radiation over multiple instances/years. Maestro coming back is less about his "natural regenerative powers" and more about the plot device that is gamma radiation exposure.

Let's remember, there's a literal piece of Doomsday's knee bone spur out there right now. A physical piece of Doomsday's body which is far more substantial than a psychic imprint that Doomsday might regenerate from. But Doomsday hasn't regenerated from the knee bone spur. All it did was leak genetic residue that took years to mutate a construction worker named Lloyd Clayton into Doombreaker.

Plus, I still don't see why this isn't a good feat for Doomsday's regen. It seems you also admitted that Doomsday indeed could regenerate from Raphael Arce, just by him tapping into the memory of Doomsday.
I.E, by your interpretation, Doomsday's regen ability is strong enough that he just needs a telepathic person to tap its memory and he can regenerate from it. It's a very impressive regen feat for Doomsday, no?

Hulk also has incredible Regen capabilities. He can't die. His power source makes him far more powerful than Doomsday as well. He's stronger than Doomsday. If we go no cap for one, we go no cap for the other.

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
So I take it as you don't believe there are many one-off power instances in comics?

Originally posted by qwertyuiop1998
Plus, I still don't see why this isn't a good feat for Doomsday's regen. It seems you also admitted that Doomsday indeed could regenerate from Raphael Arce, just by him tapping into the memory of Doomsday.

I.E, by your interpretation, Doomsday's regen ability is strong enough that he just needs a telepathic person to tap its memory and he can regenerate from it. It's a very impressive regen feat for Doomsday, no?

Originally posted by ODG
I do believe there are one-off power instances. But when the one-off power instance is accompanied by a lot of specific circumstances and plot devices, the one-off power instance might be more fairly attributed to the specific circumstances and plot devices rather than the character themselves in contravention of their entire history. Well... if there were ever a vs thread where you pit Superman against Doomsday... and Raphael Arce were randomly standing around... I suppose this would be relevant... ?

Cool, not what I was asking though

What about Doomsday Clock 12? That was DC stating that Doomsday died protecting Superman on July 10th 2030 after the Secret Crisis has Superman battling Thor and a Green Behemoth (the Hulk) across the universe. It stated that the Green Behemoth (Hulk) was stronger than Doomsday, and that Doomsday died in the conflict protecting Superman.

Is that counted as canon?

It is canon but they are going to say it's retconned because of things (they don't like) that happened in the story.

Originally posted by Stoic
What about Doomsday Clock 12? That was DC stating that Doomsday died protecting Superman on July 10th 2030 after the Secret Crisis has Superman battling Thor and a Green Behemoth (the Hulk) across the universe. It stated that the Green Behemoth (Hulk) was stronger than Doomsday, and that Doomsday died in the conflict protecting Superman.

Is that counted as canon?

Totally canon for DC Thor and Hulk. 👆

I don't believe either of these foes have the basic tools to keep the other dead. Death from physical damage is only a temporary road block for these guys. So I'm looking at this from a "first to temporarily kill or knock out" win condition.

Immortal Hulk (Devil Hulk) trumps Death of Superman Era Doomsday. It's a gnarly fight with immense locational damage, but in the end, this is a version of Hulk that can punch you with Superman class power and reform from total dismemberment. He's not as fast as Clark, so it will take longer for the number of punches to add up, but the end result feels like a forgone conclusion - Doomsday eventually dies, but unlike Superman, this version of Hulk doesn't die along with him.

Immortal Hulk vs. Later Forms of Doomsday (Hunter Prey) = Varying outcome based on progress of Doomsday. Later versions win more often than not. Yes, Hulk heals back or returns via the green door; but going off a "first to land a temp kill or K.O. win condition, the stronger version favors the win).

There is one caveat that I have for Hulk - This version comes at a time when the One Below All was actively working through Leader to manipulate events towards a universe ending event. Hulk essentially has access to a door that leads to Gamma Hell, with a dark equivalent of The One Above All waiting in the wings. If (and it's a big IF) Hulk were to drag Doomsday through the Green Door with him, he could get clever with Leader or TOBA to strike a deal that "leaves" Doomsday behind. If The One Below All decides to eat Doomsday, no amount of regeneration would save him. But that's one giant What If scenario that is more fun to think of than is likely to occur.

Originally posted by jaxthejester
I don't believe either of these foes have the basic tools to keep the other dead. Death from physical damage is only a temporary road block for these guys. So I'm looking at this from a "first to temporarily kill or knock out" win condition.

Immortal Hulk (Devil Hulk) trumps Death of Superman Era Doomsday. It's a gnarly fight with immense locational damage, but in the end, this is a version of Hulk that can punch you with Superman class power and reform from total dismemberment. He's not as fast as Clark, so it will take longer for the number of punches to add up, but the end result feels like a forgone conclusion - Doomsday eventually dies, but unlike Superman, this version of Hulk doesn't die along with him.

Immortal Hulk vs. Later Forms of Doomsday (Hunter Prey) = Varying outcome based on progress of Doomsday. Later versions win more often than not. Yes, Hulk heals back or returns via the green door; but going off a "first to land a temp kill or K.O. win condition, the stronger version favors the win).

There is one caveat that I have for Hulk - This version comes at a time when the One Below All was actively working through Leader to manipulate events towards a universe ending event. Hulk essentially has access to a door that leads to Gamma Hell, with a dark equivalent of The One Above All waiting in the wings. If (and it's a big IF) Hulk were to drag Doomsday through the Green Door with him, he could get clever with Leader or TOBA to strike a deal that "leaves" Doomsday behind. If The One Below All decides to eat Doomsday, no amount of regeneration would save him. But that's one giant What If scenario that is more fun to think of than is likely to occur.

Superman nor Doomsday is one punch breaking an Odin Force Thor skull in a single hit. No matter how much you want to hype these 2 up. They are not overloading vibranium either or one punch koing cosmic ghost. Let's not forget this version of Hulk one hitting the One Below All and just wrecking the Avengers on an ongoing basis. Doomsday gets his face caved in.

Originally posted by carver9
Superman nor Doomsday is one punch breaking an Odin Force Thor skull in a single hit. No matter how much you want to hype these 2 up. They are not overloading vibranium either or one punch koing cosmic ghost. Let's not forget this version of Hulk one hitting the One Below All and just wrecking the Avengers on an ongoing basis. Doomsday gets his face caved in.

Your tag name seems very familiar. Were you on the Marvel.com versus boards back in the day?

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Spot on.

Trouble is, just about everyone underrates Post Crisis Superman, and by extension Doomsday.

Early 90's Superman actually had some pretty insane feats. The "Time and Time Again" arc had explosions bouncing him through time, and some of those included;

1. The "Five Years Later" LOSH moon exploding.
2. A Sun Eater imploding on top of him (They eat suns, even Validus could have died in one)

Detractors like to insist the time jumps somehow meant he wasn't taking the brunt of those explosions, but that's just dumb.

Anyways point is DOS DD beating him to death after all he took says a lot about how hard he hits.

Originally posted by cdtm
Trouble is, just about everyone underrates Post Crisis Superman, and by extension Doomsday.

Early 90's Superman actually had some pretty insane feats. The "Time and Time Again" arc had explosions bouncing him through time, and some of those included;

1. The "Five Years Later" LOSH moon exploding.
2. A Sun Eater imploding on top of him (They eat suns, even Validus could have died in one)

Detractors like to insist the time jumps somehow meant he wasn't taking the brunt of those explosions, but that's just dumb.

Anyways point is DOS DD beating him to death after all he took says a lot about how hard he hits.

Even being in the Sun-Eater was a feat.

Some other stuff Pre-DOS for Superman include when he faced the Krypton Man version of Eradicator. Took a beating from him while under a red sun. And was thrown into that red sun.....twice. Wasn't knocked out or seriously hurt.

When time traveling on Krypton, he survived its destruction. He wasn't immediately knocked out(did lose consciousness shortly after, but not immediately). This was under a red sun and literally surrounded by Kryptonite. And he took the explosion of a planet that dwarfed Jupiter.

People argue he was Eclipso amped against Captain Marvel to try and dismiss that, but ignore the fight with Lar Gand. If you argue that he was amped against Captain Marvel, what do you say to him beating down an Eclipsed Lar Gand? Lar was a planet mover under his own power and Superman was at a disadvantage having the air knocked out of him at a time he actually did need to breathe (so Carter and other haters, you only prove you're retards if you use this for current or basically any other time for Superman 😆 ). He was passing out and still beat down an Eclipsed Lar so badly Lar needed medical care.

I mentioned in another thread he had a continent level(perhaps greater) feat while severely drained by Starbreaker (couldn't fly). Actually he also was at the core of Almarac IIRC while in this state, fixed the fissure or whatever it was sending the planet out of orbit, and dug his way out, so strength, speed and durability while severely drained.

He has nanosecond level feats in this era including the famous scene with Hal that's way more impressive than a nanosecond. And he powered through Waverider stopping time in this era too.

He restrained Blaze while in a dimension that drained his energy. Blaze has held Black Adam helplessly with one hand and overpowered her father Shazam, who is supposed to be stronger than Captain Marvel and I've seen evidence of it. Restraint wasn't pure strength but still, given how strong Blaze was and Superman was nring drained (had previously been fighting a horde of demons in this dimension) makes it impressive. He also took some portion of the blast that literally destroyed her(why Jr was restraining her, to give her brother time to do the blast). You know, magic, something Thorbags argue gives Thor the advantage, that blast that destroyed Blaze only KOed a weakened Pre-DOS Superman.

And hey, going by how Byrne described Superman, there is a strong argument he legitimately moved the Earth and Moon as well as that small moon sized ship, not just the ship as the comic implies and Superman haters argue. Byrne himself said about how he wrote Superman, that Superman was as strong as he believed he was. So him believing the mass of the Earth and Moon were negated can definitely be argued he moved their mass, not they were negated(I don't recall any actual conformation, just his speculation). And moving through Hyperspace was said to be the hard part. Even if it's just the ship, moving that through hyperspace is pretty good.

Originally posted by jaxthejester
Your tag name seems very familiar. Were you on the Marvel.com versus boards back in the day?

Great many of us were.

Same with Comixtreme, Herochat, Comics Ledger and so on.

We're the last bastion of pre-reddit, pre-social media comic fans.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Great many of us were.

Same with Comixtreme, Herochat, Comics Ledger and so on.

We're the last bastion of pre-reddit, pre-social media comic fans.

Aka the shitehole sites.

Whilest "I" came from elegant sites like Alvaro's Battleboard (Talked with Walter f'n Simonson on their New Gods board!) and CBR.

Originally posted by carver9
Superman nor Doomsday is one punch breaking an Odin Force Thor skull in a single hit. No matter how much you want to hype these 2 up. They are not overloading vibranium either or one punch koing cosmic ghost. Let's not forget this version of Hulk one hitting the One Below All and just wrecking the Avengers on an ongoing basis. Doomsday gets his face caved in.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Great many of us were.

Same with Comixtreme, Herochat, Comics Ledger and so on.

We're the last bastion of pre-reddit, pre-social media comic fans.

I dig it. I was on there religiously back then. Posted a ton in the Versus boards and on the old Hulk forums, right up until they shut down the boards. Cool to see some other folks still around from back then.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He also exploded and died in a town level explosion lol

Are you really doing collateral damage? You'll lose this debate if you are.

Originally posted by carver9
Are you really doing collateral damage? You'll lose this debate if you are.